Reeds, St John’s and Epsom College

[Jennywrensnose]

Hi - does anyone have any information about these schools - the good, the bad and the ugly?

DS1 about to do pre tests and although his headmaster at prep school thinks he is capable of getting into one of the more academic schools in the area (Hampton or RGS) I worry that he might not make the grade (competition is so fierce and he is not at the very top of the pack!) and I want to be sure that any other school that we choose to sit for is not just a “back up” and one which we love and he will feel proud to attend. I’m also wondering whether a less academic school might allow him to be a big fish in a small pond rather than in the middle at a school full of the brightest boys in the area but that’s a whole other debate)...... I have visited all 3 and to be honest they all looked nice, the academic levels appear to be similar and they are all close enough that logistics aren’t a consideration. DS is bright (top set) and a talented sportman. He’s not really interested in much else!! He’s pretty laid back and makes friends easily - however I do worry that when he’s older he would be easily led in terms of “partying” if that’s the “cool” thing to do at school? He’s also very competitive which is what makes him do well academically (as opposed to a genuine love of learning)....he would need to be somewhere where there a bright cohort to keep him on his toes....it doesn’t have to be a whole year group of very bright children but enough to make him want to compete.

So bearing this in mind does anyone have any personal insights or gems of wisdom to help us make our choice (as we don’t want to sit more than 3 or 4 schools in total).

Thank-you!

Hi, I'm guessing you are looking for 13plus entry but you need to clarify. Hampton & RGS much more difficult at 13 than 11, St John's is currently very popular due to new head & new bus routes, Epsom is a good back up at 13 for Hampton/RGS.
Possibly choose by sport, ie no football at Reeds etc.
You will find lots of boys are sitting that combination, possibly sit 4 schools & then consider the other concerns you have when you have the offers, it's a harrowing process and by February most hesitations you would have had are out the window!

I think you may be in for a shock. Epsom, Reeds and St John's are all very competitive schools now, and I know bright, sporty, nice boys who have been rejected by all of them. None of them are places where you can be a "big fish in a small pond", and by describing them as "less academic schools" I think you might be underestimating what the competition is like.

I went through this process 2 years ago. It is tough! Friends who applied to each of those schools had rejections. Sometimes they were gutted because they had thought of them as "back ups".

Go with your gut feeling. You will get a sense of where will be the best fit for your ds.

Thanks Sunshine - it’s 13+ entry so place will be deferred. I suppose DS would prefer to play football instead of hockey so maybe St John’s and Epsom better? Although I was wondering if it might be better to stay single sex at least until 6th form....

TuttiFrutti - I should have mentioned I’ve been through the pretest process with my elder DS (original message was a typo - should have read DS2) so I’m familiar with the process as he sat the tests for KCS, Westminster, RGS and Hampton (and for offer for all) - although this was 4 years ago and elder DS is a very different child! I’m sure you’re right though and the opening up of new bus routes from Richmond and London has made schools like Reeds, St John’s and Epsom much much more competitive than they were back then.....although I was hoping that the hurdle might be a little bit lower than the one required for RGS/KCS! Gosh it’s so tough for the boys round here...

We are applied for Epsom and St John's at 11 rather than 13 - got offers from both but accepted a place CLFS. So it is worth considering that they are back up schools for some for CLFS, which increases competition. Equally even some CLFS siblings, who got CLFS offers, have taken St John's places.

St John's and Epsom are both trying to move up league tables, so have been marketing themselves increasing demand for places. They are looking to get more of the girls, so boys it is harder for boys to get places than it was ( I think they were 75% boys but now more like 60%). St John's a levels results were not great this year, so that may affect demand. Definitely not as hard as KCS and RGS to get into but as Tuttifrutti says they do reject able children, who 2 or 3 years ago probably would have been accepted. Consequently, two of the local preps are extending to 16 to cater for these boys.

It would be worth considering the journeys - we didn't apply for Reeds despite it probably being as close or closer than St John's as DC would either be driven or get the coach. The coach is very expensive and he would have got on at 7 am and been on it for almost an hour. By car, it would have been 10-15 mins and fine dropping but coming back I would have had to turn right onto the road to Oxshott, which is a nightmare when it is busy and the road can be very congested.

There are previous threads on Epsom and St John's, which may be useful. I think sometimes Epsom offer boarding places if the day places are filled. However, they moving towards 50% boarding 50% day with a bias towards day. St John's have weekly boarders. I also think from memory St John's offer subject scholarships, which increases demand.

Hi Trojan - I think you are right that lots of people do apply to these schools as a back up and therefore many offers are turned down. I think St Johns actually under offered this past year, as did KGS...... Last year everyone as DS' prep school who applied to Reeds/St John/Epsom as a "back up" got offered a place but these were children in the top set who had been prepped for the much tougher exams at RGS/KCS etc so its not really surprising. We also had lots of boys turned down too but they were from the lower sets, so bright kids but not able to compete with the kids in the top set in terms of CAT scores, Headmasters reports and the test itself. The system really is quite crazy and there should really be some rules about how many schools you can apply for - I think people just panic because they hear stories about boys being turned down.

But putting aside all the ins and outs of being offered a place I was really looking for a bit of insight into what these schools are like on a day to day basis from people who have children there. DS1 is at RGS and DD1 at LEH so I am very familiar with the culture at those 2 schools and they are really very similar. Are Reeds/St Johns/Epsom just the same? I know Tutti Frutti has stated that these school are now very academic and that you need to be extremely bright/talented to get in, but when I compare the GCSE/A Level results there does seem to still be a big difference in terms of attainment (compared to RGS/KCS/Hampton/Westminster etc) and there seems to be a much broader spread of abilities....I guess I was just trying to figure out how this translates to the school experience? Do the kids have more fun? Is there more emphasis on extra curricular activities? Do these school successfully cater to the needs of what is probably a broader spread of abilities or do they cater best for those at the top/middle/bottom? What is the attitude to working and doing well in exams and further education? Is there less pressure on the children? Open Days and visits are all fine and well but I just don't think you get a true picture or what things are like because everyone is on best behaviour.

Maybe they are all the same - in which case its a simple job of comparing coach routes/traffic/sports options!

My eldest is in the sixth form at Reeds and has been there since 11. He is very sporty and academically able having also got in to Hampton at 11, sits within the top quartile but nowhere near the top. Both he and we are very happy with the school. It is a very kind and considerate environment but seems to get the best out of the children, he did very well at GCSE and is predicted to do equally well at A level. Fabulous extra curricular, pastoral care and everything we care about in education!

I might be able to help as I have DS's at KCS and St Johns so think I have a good grip on the differences between the typical "super academic" school and the other choices

KCS (like Hampton and RGS) is big (150 boys) compared to around 70 at St Johns which makes it different in many ways. Much more competition in terms of sports teams which makes it less inclusive so can be somewhat disheartening for the boy who enjoys his sport but doesn't make the cut for the A or B team. Likewise lots of competition in terms of Drama and Music. They put on lots of vey fantastic performances but you have to be really talented to actually get a part! There is a similar theme across all the activities. In one way its great because it forces the boys to find what they love and are best at, but in another way it does mean boys sometimes give up doing things that they don't think they are great at. Academically it is very tough. Lots of homework and absolutely no leniency or tolerance for not keeping up. However, as most of the boys are naturally very bright, this is just what they need to ensure that they don't coast along doing the bare minimum. Its definitely seen as "cool" to do well academically and no boy wants to be scoring too far below the median. At prize giving you are only invited if you get a prize (and those prizes are few and far between - definitely not a "reward everyone" culture). So basically it can be quite a brutal environment to be in and its not the sort of school for a boy who lacks resilience. Socially its extremely diverse - kids come from all over the place and there are lots of parents from very different backgrounds. I would say that compared to prep school it is actually much more kind/tolerant - there are so many boys it is very easy to find your "gang". Boys are also quite street smart as they are used to using public transport and meeting up with friends across london. I would say it has a cosmopolitan feel. Great school - works really well for DS1.

DS2 is at St Johns. Also a great school but for difference reasons. Much smaller and less diverse - its really is made up of fairly affluent surrey families. In terms of extracurricular activities its vey inclusive - if you want to play a sport you can generally be guaranteed a match every week. Likewise for all the other activities on offer. I really can't fault it in that respect.

Academically it's much more nurturing.....I have to disagree with Tutti Frutti in terms of the intake. Not everyone is hugely academic - and there are a fair number that struggle and they are very good at helping them. I would say that the majority of kids are above average - capable of getting those As and A*s but only if they work hard for them. There are of course a handful of very clver kids in each year but I wouldn't say that this is the norm as these children become well known for being "really really clever" . Is it "cool" to be clever....mmmmmm....secretly I think they all want to do well but no one is shouting from the rooftops about coming top in an exam as its not that sort of place.

Socially it can be quite cliquey - there are groups of children who are perceived to be popular. I think this is because of the size of the school and the fact that everyone knows everyone. Its very like it was at prep school - so if you have the right type of child then they will have a fantastic time but for the wrong child maybe not so much. Are there parties? Yes....but there are at all schools. If your child is popular at St Johns they will probably get invited to lots of parties (or gatherings) that are in the surrounding area, hosted by affluent families in beautiful houses! My DH and I joke that its a bit like being at Beverley Hills 90210!

I love both schools - the reason we chose St Johns over KCS for DS2 was because he didn't get into KCS! In retrospect it suits him much better than KCS would have (because he is big fish in a small pond) and he is very very happy. I would perhaps like him to work a bit harder, but I am hoping that his brother's exam results will spur him on!

Finally on the subject of pretests - I wouldn't worry. Just follow the advice of your headmaster. Ours told us DS2 would be borderline but he was a shoo in for Reeds/St Johns which is exactly what happened. I subsequently found out that he had scored 100% in the math (yet still failed to get into KCS) so very different levels.

I meant "borderline for KCS"....

Jennywrensnose, I hadn't realised you have already been through the admissions process once before - sorry if I seemed patronising. I was assuming you were new to the system.

I wasn't implying that St John's, Reeds and Epsom are "very academic", just that they are much more so now than in the past, and nobody should regard them as the easy option. They are easier to get into than RGS and KCS, but everything's relative - my point is there will be plenty of bright boys who still won't make the grade.

I have seen parents get very upset after rejections. St John's in particular has changed a lot in the last 2 years with the new head and new bus routes. The A level and GCSE results this summer were from pupils let in under the old system.

No offence taken Tutti Frutti - I think you make a very valid point that things are changing at certain schools and they are getting harder to get into. I just wanted to get a sense of what these schools feel like now (to parents and pupils) since the change has started.

I’m looking at St John’s 6th form for my DD1 - so if there’s anyone who has experienced entering in to 6th there I’d be very interested please.

Anyone heard anything about scholarship interviews 11+ for Reeds?

i have a very clever DS who didn't get into the super selectives at pre-test as he was completely unprepared (chorister background no time for that sort of thing) he aced his common entrance exams blah blah..
he said the exams were hard at KCS and St Paul's but StJ exam was a doddle. it was a shoe in for him and tbh we felt it was second best. I hate the lack of diversity and we really don't fit in..BUT he is very happy and it is nurturing and he has made lovely friends.
He is also pretty lazy and i think KCS or similar would've been totally wrong for him.
People do see it as a back up school - we got some funny looks when we told people DS was going there - but fortunately we don't really care what other people think!
The other thing is it's ££££££££££ but if that's not a prob i would say go for it!

Sorry should add we looked at Epsom and did not like the vibe. The boy showing us round was lovely but generally i didnt like it.
the STJ kids all seemed more friendly.
that's just my impression of it tho.

Thank you kaliforniaDreamz -