Southwest London state and independent secondary schools

[Time4Gin]

Hi all

My DS is starting year 5 this September, so entry into secondary school in Sep 2020 - a long way off but we have started to visit schools already because we have to move house in the next 9 months, (to get the money to pay for a good independent) but we would like to move to one of the good state schools catchment areas as a back up if he didn’t get into any of the independents.

DS is in top 3 at his current primary but is a bit weak at written spelling and English but has a great imagination and reads well - is starting private tutoring this September. He is great at Maths, loves Science and Engineering, also Drama and Music. He loves sports and is great at running - he loves football but isn’t brilliant at it. He has suffered bullying a lot at his primary but still does well and has friends; he’s quite a sensitive child and I just want a place that deals with bullying well and will push him to focus on his work, which he is good at once he focuses.

What state schools does anyone recommend? I am looking at Graveney, Ashcroft, Thomas Harris, Kingsdale but what others should I think about? We ideally want mixed. We are currently in Wandsworth but like I say, moving to anywhere appropriate (and we have a bit of a budget but not huge).

Or additional independents? We are looking are Alleyns (first choice, school seems exceptional), KCS, Dulwich and possibly Emanuel (but he hates rugby) and Whitgift.

Has anyone else gone to a state school (no problem just know the catchments are so tiny) when not getting into an independent? Did you reapply for age 13 entry or stick with state?

Any help needed with other goood schools to consider - I don’t want to get it all wrong and/or push my son too hard so he struggles later if he did get in. All and any advice desperately grateful for!

TIA

If you are looking at Whitgift, Trinity should be on your list too. High standards in all areas. Fantastic music opportunities there. Keen to encourage sport participation what ever the ability.
Very good with the more sensitive boys.

Ok great - thank you! X

The charter school, north Dulwich seems an obvious choice if you’re also looking at the Dulwich private schools. Small catchment though.

Dunraven and Charter both excellent state schools.

The charter is not a private school but is apparently a great school
(Much sought after but you have to live VERY close) You might also want to look at Kingsdale, near Dulwich (state) - it’s a lottery system So doesn’t matter where you live (and they do sports and music scholarships)

If he's sensitive you probably want to take Ashcroft off your list.

Thanks,all.

@Sweetnhappy1 okay. What’s your experience or what have you heard? On an older MN thread I read about gangs and severe discipline... ?

From what I have heard, Ashcroft is one of those Stalag Zero Tolerance academies. But no direct experience.

Graveney, Dunraven and Charter actually seem to like young people.

Chestnut Grove has a growing reputation, too, if you want to stay Wandsworth side.

Dunraven probably has the cheapest catchment area, though not sure how Graveney compares. The Graveney catchment is tiny for the distance places.

I think Ashcroft is a pretty good school and many kids clearly do brilliantly there - my personal experience is limited to quite extensive probing done last year after my now-Y7 dc was offered a place. We turned it down, partly for above-type reasons although I don’t think they are quite fair . . I much preferred it to Graveney for example! (Which struck me as dated, self-congratulatory (though all schools are a bit like that on Open Days!) and deluded about the nature and wider impact of their big selective intake. . Graveney is effectively the Wandsworth grammar school, fine if you like that sort of thing . .)
My DS sounds pretty much like yours OP . . Our offer from Ashcroft came accompanied by a letter, very short on friendly congratulations, and very heavy on DO NOT COME TO THIS SCHOOL UNLESS YOU ARE PREPARED TO BE VERY FOCUSSED AND WORK VERY HARD.
Now my DC is naturally a hard worker, he gets absorbed in a subject and can produce amazing work without stress at all - which is how I think it should be. He likes praise of course but isn’t much bothered what mark he gets nor does he care much whether he comes in 1st or 4th in the class on any given occasion, though he enjoys having a generally brainy rep.
I was afraid that a school which positively induces competitiveness could end up replacing his natural love of learning with an unhappy, possibly mentally unstable, pressure-cooked pursuit of tip-top-results on every occasion. I’m sure staff at both above schools would brand me an overprotective hippie, but I just think I know my kid . . He doesn’t need “pushing”, he’s doing his best anyway, and so far it’s pretty good!
The school we opted for just seemed a whole lot friendlier- equally ambitious but never at expense of general well-being. It’s very early days, but no regrets yet.
That said, I still think he would most likely have been fine at Ashcroft, a great school in many ways.

Thanks, both! @marytuda thanks for your take on it - what school did you end up opting for?

I have heard a bit about Ashcroft but I will check it out anyhow, if only to rule it out with knowledge. These are the schools we are now looking at (in no order):

Ashcroft tech
Chestnut Grove
Graveney
Harris Ac Battersea
Dunraven
The Charter School
Haberdashers
Kingsdale
Platanos college
Grey court (Richmond)
Chelsea academy
(Also possibly the 2 Harris academy schools in Merton and upper Norwood and also possibly Lillian Baylis tech and Orleans park if I have anytime left!)

Paid for schools we are applying to:
Emanuel for year 6 entry
KCS for year 6 entry
Ibstock PL
Alleyn’s
Trinity
Whitgift

Appreciate everyone’s comments, thank you! I hope the actual visits enlighten us further xx

My sons are at Emanuel they love it, if your son is sensitive they seem to have a good nurturing policy - you're right though Rugby is the main boys sport, however in 2020 they are introducing football in the lower school. Be warned though that it has got much harder to get a place in

OP there are three Harris Academies in Merton (new Wimbledon one has taken its first Year 7 cohort this September).

I agree with MaryTuda about Graveney. Neither of my two was impressed with it. And agree the SLT seems smug.

We looked at Ashcroft for DC1 but yes, agree, it seemed over strict with a 'cooler' wing for the badly behaved...

I know people at Gravney and Ashcroft, to me the discipline was too much at Ashcroft and seemed to knock the personality out of the kids so they could get the results - I know people that are happy there though that was just my open day impression, at Gravney it felt too huge and cramped - there going to get great resets when they are that selective!

If your child is a bright, confident, motivated self-starter then Graveney should be fine (although the site is far too small for the number of pupils crammed into it). However, if your child has any additional need, any mental health issues or is simply a bit shy and needing some encouragement then avoid like the plague

I believe Ashcroft is a grim school to teach in as well. It means teachers leave as soon as they can find a job elsewhere.

I have no vested interest, but Ashcroft say they owe it to the kids to give them the best possible chance to get results that will help them in the future. They make no bones about being a strict school.

@lottiebear69 yes my DS will sit an early entry exam in jan 2019 for Emanuel which if he passed and got a place would mean he will start Sep 19 in year 6. The cap is still on at this point so the proportion of applicants to places is significantly lower for the v last time (200 applicants for 48 places for early entry ie to year 6) so this entry point is better than the year 7 entry point which is 1000 applicants for 98 places which will then change for entry to year 7 in 2020 because they will then lift the cap so unlimited applicants still for 98 places at year 7 entry or 48 for year 6.

I am not sure he’ll get it as hasn’t really done timed papers before - but it’s worth a try as I loved Emanuel when viewed it and now DS has said he’ll try the rugby (and it’s contactless at his level for a while)

Thanks for your comments! I appreciate chatting about these things as most parents of other kids in DS’s year are quite rightly not yet motivated as it’s only because we have to move that we are looking a year early xx

To all, re Ashcroft - cheers for the thoughts, I appreciate it. We are looking at it on Tuesday, however I know we are unlikely to go for somewhere that has an overbearing discipline policy - DS doesn’t need it as he’s already super well-behaved (ha, when not with me of course ) and would become withdrawn and fearful if over-disciplined. I’m bossy enough and strict at home . But it’s worth me seeing anyhow to compare and contrast do you think?

Sorry I was unable to reply sooner but agree with what has been said upthread, Ashcroft is good for the right sort of kid but probably not for a sensitive type. I saw it and realised this a couple of years ago but I will be taking my year 6 daughter along on Tuesday to see it because it is one of our closest schools and she needs to feel involved in the decision making. My feeling is that it would crush her and I will probably not be putting it on the form but she needs to understand why when quite a few from her class will be going there.

i don't particularly know Ashcroft but can i just say something in defence of a strict discipline policy for well behaved children?

I went to a secondary school which was well known for its pastoral care. Some of the kids, boys in particular, ran rings around the teacher. Back chat, things out of windows etc etc. How much trouble you got in depended on how much the teacher expected of you. I for example a clever well behaved girl with a supportive family could barely ask my neighbour a question without being told off. Others could come in late, do bugger all work and it was fine because "they were there" which was the most the school asked for them.

It was hideous and very unfair.

A strict and consistent policy would have suited everyone better and we would all have got a lot more teaching. Of course in this school we weren't streamed for anything either

Montenuit I get what you are saying re: discipline but Ashcroft is a whole other level. Not allowing children to go to their relative's funerals and putting them in detention for attending, if children have any time off for anything they end up having to make up the time after school (e.g. for sickness). From what I've heard detentions are given out very quickly. Discipline is a great thing but there are levels.

Following on what dreaming said about schools like Ashcroft aiming to equip their kids (many of whom are "disadvantaged") with the best possible future (by getting best possible results) I do think schools sometimes forget that long-term success in life is about much much more than getting tip-top exam results. Personally I'd willingly trade in a few GCSE grades, for all-round emotional stability, robustness, easy sociability and strength of character etc which is notoriously hard to measure (unlike spelling or maths) but comes out of a much broader curriculum and experience, possibly, than these schools allow for. . . .
Of course, a lot of that is down to family background and resources; and of course, there's a limit to how much any school can compensate for any deficiency. But in focusing on grades to exclusion of much else (simply by issuing so much homework, for example, that there's little time for it even when families are able and willing) - and that's what all that discipline is for, really, isn't it; making sure every child can achieve the highest grade possible - there may be a price to pay in (longer-term?) mental health terms. And how will that help any child's future, however academically outstanding?
I get that these schools are doing a brilliant job with often disadvantaged children, getting many into top universities when 20, 30 years ago, no state school would have bothered. But I'd like to see long-term emotional health outcomes for schools like Ashcroft, Mossbourne, and the many other private and state discipline-focussed, academic hothouses. Their RG and Oxbridge entry stats may be impressive . . . But what about general wellbeing, 20 or 30 years later?? It'd be hard, of course, to demonstrate a definitive link .. . But you might be able to plot a tendency ??

In answer to your question earlier OP, we stuck with our original offer, Chelsea Academy, about which I won't say more except we are still fine with it, and so far, eagerness to get out there and on with it bubbles out of DS every morning! So something must be going right.
I will add though on discipline/detention front they are clearly no pushover either. It is a C of E school, so your only access to it is via church attendance, local feeder school, or music aptitude test.
Incidentally your state-school list includes 5 of the 6 schools on our final application last year. And I visited most of the others. . . I find it slightly incongruous that you'd consider schools like Lilian Baylis and Platanos in the same breath as, I don't know, Trinity or Whitgift. Not that I have the slightest idea what those or any London private schools are like . . .But LB and Platanos are local catchment comps, not remotely the kind of "leafy" or impossibly-oversubscribed (read underhand-selective) supercomps I imagine most private-school people might contemplate. They have, to put it super-bluntly, 100% non-white-middle-class intake with very high PP representation. And they are good schools by all accounts, especially Platanos; kids and teachers I met at both places seemed great. But that doesn't usually cut it with, erm, a certain type of comfortably-off London family . . .

OP, interesting post! Delighted that you are sharing with mumsnet. It really depends on your child, Ashcroft is much more tech / maths than (for example) Chestnut Grove. With Harris Academy Battersea let me just suggest to you to see it on open day. It looks great on paper but reality wasn't what we expected.

As other posters said: Graveney you really have to move into the few streets around it to have a chance (and I heard that they ask if you lived there for at least two years - not sure this is true?). So please go to all open days and ask the important questions.

Re: indies, did you go see Radnor House? Small, great pastoral care and enthusiastic Head. Seems a great place for a sensitive child. KCS again a very different kettle of fish. Boys I know there are super happy and well adjusted, but usually do not have a great circle of friends locally as kids attend from all over London (the world!) and their group of friends is therefore scattered. Also, if your child is not in the top three kids academically IN HIS YEAR, I dare say you will need ramp up the prep to get into KCS.

One other school / strategy to consider if you are not adverse to a double school move.. Move into catchment for Belleville/Honeywell primaries as there are guaranteed spaces coming up in year 6. (5 in one class at HW due to a mass move to Emanuel’s Hill form. This will get you into the feeder system for the Bolingbroke Academy.

BB is not to everyone’s taste but is one of the smaller Wandsworth secondaries, community based and doing well with its GCSE results. It’s eased up on its discipline policy but still pretty strict and the small site can be a turn off. Just throwing it into the mix as an idea.

Also, to echo a PP Chestnut Grove is definitely coming into their own, new building, lovely head. The catchment shrank significantly last year so be careful where you move to if it’s a contender.

Similarly, if you land an indie place (no guarantees for any but the very brightest these days) then consider being as close as possible to a decent railway station as the mornings can get very early! St Dunstans might be worth a look.. they have a bus from Clapham South.

Have you completely ruled out grammars?