As the Tiffin deadline looms, is there a girls SW London grammars / indies thread yet?

[FlumePlume]

I just realised that I need to get the Tiffin Girls form in ASAP, and wondered if anyone else is in the same position? I could do with company in this process!

We’re not yet decided but probably applying to Tiffin, WHS, SPGS, Sutton High and maybe one of PHS / Emanuel / KGS.

Yes, we only did two (Tiffin and SPGS) but DD got offers from both. She was at a school that many go private to avoid (though it is, like all our local schools, a really good school)! But I note that her peers from nursery and preschool who did go private to avoid her school have done no better than her and in many cases not as well (eg not getting into Tiffin). Private primary schooling is absolutely not the be all and end all and in many cases it is not worth the money, in my view.

If anyone wants exam technique tips please say, and I will try to summarise what I was taught at my secondary many years ago (one of the schools mentioned on this thread as it happens).

Yes I would agree that going private doesn't make that much difference for the girls schools apart from when a dd hasn't got a place at all then you would expect your head to spring into action and phone round etc plus they should have been honest with you about the sort of school you should be aiming for.

With the boys it is different I think as you might have been aiming for a 13+ school all along in which case you would have to have been in the system and know how it works and obvs been prepping for common entrance/scholarship for a long time.

They don't drill constantly for months btw - that is a complete myth in my experience. Lots of the private pupils will have done external mock tests and had private single or group tuition precisely because they don't drill for months.

More will get in to WHS of course because of the lower school and because they are willing to pay full fees (and the private schools have an informal feeding system in place that suits both sides) - contrast that with the state/private percentages for a very generous bursary school like Trinity or Old Palace.

Teacakesandcoffee01 thank you that is very useful i had no idea they would have that to do.
She has not really done many past papers, she is pretty resistant to the whole thing. I will print off from StJ.
User20182008 i have to say i agree with you.
For those of you with state school kids who have sailed through stage ones, you have stand out kids. I think you really have to be very very bright, determined, fast paced to get through.
I am not denigrating private school kids, but i did look round the room and feel we were in a minority (the sparkly uniforms are a big giveaway). My friend who tutors explains it this way - they have been chuntering through work at a faster pace from day one. This is where my DD can't compete. She gets no homework. She simply doesn't have the same pace. School does nothing but SATs preparation. Mock tests she scores top for liteacy (maths is only ok). Compare that to how she fares in the 3 or 4 past papers i have managed to get her to do - just doesnt compare.
I'm happy with her school, it's bloody lovely. Just wish i hadn't put her into this ring, it is just making her feel bad about herself, like she doesn't measure up. The few other girls who are sitting from her primary, only the exceptional girls (2) got through the first stages of grammar and WHS. The 'just' bright ones did not. So for anyone reading this in the future, if you have decent state options, just go for those and save yourself a year of hell!!

Kalifornia- please don't get too stressed about the state v private. Went through all this last year and at this point felt similar to you, seeing all the badges, striped blazers etc, convinced they were all far more prepared etc. However I know many children at these preps and when the results came out their outcomes were really not so different to my DC's state school friends who all got multiple offers from good schools and they were definitely not super bright children.
WHS is a strange one. My DD's tutor said some of the prep schools were not getting many offers at all because their exam is so different from the standard Maths and English. I know a few girls there and there are plenty of girls from state schools there. I think the 2 stage process this year is a double edged sword as it feels like an earlier rejection. If the rejection was received at the same time as all the other offers and rejections came out it wouldn't feel so bad I think.

Thanks winter Sort of glad we know now!! at least only 2 exams to sit!!

Glacierous "Private primary schooling is absolutely not the be all and end all and in many cases it is not worth the money, in my view."

Exactly the same point can be made about private senior schools. There are plenty of excellent state comps in the area and DCs there will do as well and even better than pupils at private senior schools.

Glaciferous it does sound as though your DD is exceptional then!
An exceptional kid will always do well.
I would like some tips, please, as i don't really know how to help her. I know in theory she needs to speed up etc but how do i practically help her? I am grateful for any tips!

I completely agree with User you can't argue with those stats!!!

This isn't a state V private BTW. I have lots of experience of both sectors more a 'how do you get them through it' thread!
(PS def thinking about state sixth form for my DS who is scholarship kid at an indie)

Good luck to all in this boat. Whether with a paddle or without!!!

Glaciferous

I’d love some exam technique tips please. DD won’t be doing the private secondary route but a lot of girls she ends up at Secondary with are likely to have been tutored. I’d like to know what they know so I can tell DD. I’m assuming it will all be useful for SATs and general exams.

30 girls from your state primary actually sat the WHS tests?? That seems an awful lot.

A friend told me her DD ges a 'talking point' slideshow every week to help them with interview, um, talking points. I told my DD while we were on the bus to make sure she looks the interviewer in the eye.
LOL.

Jimjam yes see your point but you can see hers too surely??

I think the Study is unusual as a lot of parents will want their girls to go to Whs for location reasons. They probably do drill in VR and NVR specifically for WHS, more so than other preps. I think that VR and NVR is the easiest thing to help with at home- far easier than comprehension for example ( for me anyway...).
At our state primary 4 applied to WHS and 2 got offers and one got waitlist which turned into an offer.
I know several prep girls who got flat No's despite getting into Putney, G&l etc as they didn't do much Reasoning practice.
Anyway all very anecdotal! Lots of great schools out there.

Graciferous, your daughter is exceptional and having you working from home is a bonus( saving travelling time and could help her more with home work). Prep/private primary schools do have a score for top and bottom(I agree I am not too sure about the middle range). My daughter friends were pulled out from our outstanding Richmond primary at year 4 and sent to a prep instead given their elder sibling are in top indies(one is in SPGS). My friends daughter goes to Putney high, the quality of teaching and care is amazing, you do get what you pay for, their learning is extremely stimulating comparing to what my children have from their state primary. My daughter for years has always been very bored especially with maths at our state primary however her teacher is struggling with so many other things. Except this year she has been having an amazing teacher who stretches her in all including science, the first time she loves school so much that we went for an interview and could only came back for 45mins however she insisted to get back. She said 1 day in year 6 she has been learning as much as the whole year 5. She is taught creative maths this term too(I dont really understand what does it mean). Overall I am happy(ish) with our school because its “free”, very nearby(short walk), it suits our busy life style well when we are not being to drop or pick up. Saving on years of fee meaning average middle class like us could now afford private secondary. However if I have the money and the flexibility in choosing childcare in picking and dropping then I would definitely send them to private, not even have to think twice.

Wading into the conversation, my observation is that so much time is wasted at my daughter’s state primary with low level disruption, which drives her mad because she just wants to learn. They have no real interest in stretching the brightest kids because they just have to get as many as possible over the line. I’ve always been realistic about what they could do for her and so invested in a quality tutor who I believe has added more value than her school ever could. It’s been a darn sight cheaper than a prep school but my daughter’s primary education has not been very enjoyable for her at times, in all honesty. That’s just our school though, I’m sure other state schools do a better job,

'If you put the same 30 girls from my DD's state school into The Study from Reception, I would imagine the same percentage would get offers as the girls who go there currently.'

Would you also swap their parents etc? It is chicken and egg - rich but dim girls don't get into WHS. The girls at the Study are presumably both wealthy AND from families who are extremely focused on getting their dds into the senior school of their choice. If they hadn't had the money they may well have moved into a grammar area and home tutored the hell out of them every night.

Would I send my dd into a senior school interview with no preparation? No - would I go into a work interview with no prep? That would be madness so yes I arranged mock interviews for her and she reads The Week and was ready with an answer to the inevitable Brexit question.

This is cultural capital at work which would sadly be at play no matter what school they go to.

I thought I would wade in too....my DD goes to one of the many independents mentioned on this thread and assisted at the assessment day.
She said the thing the teachers were looking for were girls who engaged thoroughly with the process. The girls who had conversations with the adults and the other girls, smiled, were confident, threw themselves into the activities and looked happy. It seems that if they are bright enough to pass the entrance tests then it was only about the dynamics of the group- therefore they didn't ask the existing junior school girls to the day (dynamics would change due to existing friendship groups).
So I guess the advice I would have given you is to encourage your DDs to make conversation especially with adults, to have opinions and know what's going on in the world, to be able to talk about a book (the type of book doesn't matter book - just to be able to articulate what they liked/disliked about it), or to have a hobby/passion that they can talk about. If they have singing to enjoy it even if they are terrible - they aren't looking for talent, and to be a team player.
If your girls got as far as the interview day but do not get an offer it just means that the school wasn't quite the right fit for them - it doesn't mean that they failed. The school in question genuinely wants everyone who goes there to not only benefit from the educational experience but also to be happy and have fun.

ChristopherTracy i did also tell her to smile.

I know what kind of girl they're after. I know lots of them. I actually think that WHS was not a fit for my DD at all. It's just local to us and very practical. I jsut do't want her to feel like she isn't enough. But i am not sure she is what they want - in any of them. Maybe SHS. i dont know.

For me it's probably about personal regret. I wouldn't do this if i had my time over. The idea of treating her schooling like the Apprentice is frankly depressing.

I've been through this a few times in the last few years, now out the other side.
The next couple of months are horrible - but you are nearly out the other side. By February half term you'll have a decision.

imo it IS easier for the prep school kids, because they have been prepped. Then again their parents have paid tens of thousands for this.
State schools are just focused on the SATS, my experience anyway.

Do ask the schools you're applying to for their breakdown of state vs private primary entrants. It's likely to be much higher state than you think, especially in SWLondon where we have many excellent state primaries.

The biggest difference I found from my state educated dcs entering private secondaries was their lack of geography, science, and MFL knowledge. Maths & English they were on a par (and actually often better at tests due to the SATS practice!)

Kalifornia, that's a brilliant comparison to The Apprentice. It's absurd isn't it, that we're discussing what opinion a 10-year-old might have on Brexit.

I hated putting my child up for judgment and finding myself judging them myself - ooo they're not very articulate are they, they have no special talents etc instead of just celebrating their many qualities.

I'm not even sure it's all worth it. My older two are in very sought-after London school and I remember each time the results came in for 11+ feeling oddly deflated and bitter, even though they ended up doing really well. A bit like, oh so now you want my kids do you? I've seen the comparison here that these schools are like private hospitals that only take healthy patients, chuck out any that happen to get ill and then brag about how much better their doctors must be do have such low death rates compared with that crappy NHS hospital down the road.

Exactly the same point can be made about private senior schools. There are plenty of excellent state comps in the area and DCs there will do as well and even better than pupils at private senior schools.

This is very true. DD had some specific wants that made a private school more practical but they could also have been achieved with outside help at a comprehensive.

could help her more with home work

I've never helped her with homework! She's hardly ever had any, bar reading and times tables.

Re exam technique, it is honestly kind of common sense. But ten year olds are not really known for that particular quality so you might as well explicitly tell them!

Firstly, pace yourself. Have a quick read through the paper, identify (if possible) the questions that have lots of marks attached so you know where to spend the time. Make sure you know if there is say, a long question in the middle of the paper followed by lots of short ones or a long one in the middle and another at the end. You need to make sure you have enough time to do those long questions which usually have more marks attached. If there are two parts to the exam (like DD's SPGS English which was a comprehension and then a longish creative writing task), decide how you are going to split your time.

Leave some time to check your work at the end, too.

Second, if you get stuck on a question, don't spend ages getting bogged down in it. Move on to one you can do. You can come back to the one you couldn't do at the end, or later on if you have a sudden inspiration which does quite often happen.

Read the questions really thoroughly and more than once. Make sure you know what they are actually asking you to do. Answer the actual question, not the question you would prefer to be answering (more applicable to English etc but also possible to end up calculating the wrong thing in Maths).

Show every bit of working or every step of your logic. If you are not sure how to set it out, write a short sentence or two explaining what you are doing. Even if you get the final answer wrong, you will get some marks for knowing how to do it.

If you are running out of time, condense answers to the basics - eg use bullet points if you can. If you are really really running out of time, prioritise questions you know you will be good at if possible.

That's more or less it, I think.

Oh, another thing. Wear layers if you can. Being too hot or cold is really distracting so make sure you can cool down and warm up if necessary. Obviously not so easy if school uniform has to be worn. I did not send DD in uniform to her exams but I can see some schools might like you to.

Hothouse TOTALLY!!!!!!

The one thing that really helped my dd (and me!) through the process was to remember that this is a choice.
We are choosing to enter this process.
All it does is (hopefully) increase your options and give you some choice.
The government will make sure you go to secondary school - this is a bonus. No one is making you do it.

montenuit I agree, we are all very lucky to have these extra options. But I’m sure it doesn’t feel like it when you’re dealing with a disappointed dd.

FWIW, I haven’t done any interview prep with dd, I haven’t got her to read The Week (though she does usually watch Newsround at school, as it happens) or taught her about Brexit (though she was asked about it at the Sutton High interview). She just got a Sutton offer, so so far it seems to have worked.