Looking for experience/ideas to help bright kids from 'disadvantaged' backgrounds

[Teacher18]

Hi all,

I teach English in a secondary school in one of the most deprived areas of the UK. I am still new to teaching as I am about to start my third year.

Before I started teaching, I worked as a lawyer in London for 12 years but having a young family, I felt I wasn't able to spend enough time with them and I needed to change jobs. We were also incredibly fortunate that due to DH's job, my salary wasn't essential and I could consider leaving law. It might sound a bit naive or pious but I decided I wanted to change to a career that I felt was socially worthwhile and where I might make some difference. Teaching in itself was interesting but I was really drawn to working with kids with challenging backgrounds and limited environments.

Before I started, I knew that I had little in common with the kids (I was educated at boarding school, good uni, good city job, wealthy parents etc) and I'm sure most of the staff thought I'd crumble but I actually have great relationships with the kids.

Two years in and there is no question I am appalled at the education system in this country and how many kids it fails. Sadly, there is not a lot a school can do about some of it.

I want to focus on things I can improve and one area that seems obviously lacking is the kids' understanding of the wider world of work, universities and how to get in and the impact of college or GCSE choices. Essentially, they start school in Y7, have a 1hr careers talk in Y9 and talk about college in Y10 for 30 mins (and an open evening) and tend to pick college courses their friends are doing or random subjects that don't seem to lead to anything,

I'm not saying every kid should be aiming to go to uni. There are lots of degrees that are frankly an expensive waste of time but I am concerned when kids who are predicted straight grade 8s and 9s and talk about doing BTECs in music, computer studies and p.e or when asked about uni, they have no understanding of why they might want to go or feel its just for the 'elite'.

I definitely understand that a key problem with many of these kids is that they have no one around them who has been to uni so the expectation is not there and this is not going to be the same at other state schools but I would love to hear how you feel your child's school supports further education and understanding choices and consequences of what they study.

In addition, how does your school educate its pupils about different careers? Again, we seem to have an expectation they'll all stay in the town to work (where jobs are incredibly limited) and don't do anything formally (apart from having some books in the library that no one looks at).

Really interested in your experiences and ideas as to improving this area.

I would try to network hard with corporate sponsors. Even more, I would try to participate in mentoring and outreach programs for your school. They are available but needs time from school staff to invest in.

Whereabouts are you, OP?

There’s a charity called Into University that might be able to help.

First Story is a charity that puts authors into schools with high levels of FSM etc

Be as warm and "strict" simultaneously as possible. Within your cohort there will still be a spectrum. Prob most of the "brighter" ones might still come from deprived backgrounds but actually have parents who care.
Then there will be the deprived students from much more difficult backgrounds. Don't assume that you don't have brighter ones among that group. There most certainly will be but just don't know how to tap in to it.

And try to find the time to chat! In a similar school I had a group of the worst boys who ended up staying to chat even on the rare days they didn't get detention. That's when I realised they're still very much children for all the hard core front they might think they're putting up.

If children are taught by parents that they cannot open the box and find the rest of the world they are being culturally abused, user.

I absolutely hate the idea that “working class” areas seem to have that they must be treated differently, don’t appreciate other people who have acquired better jobs and standards of living, and will only listen to people like them. That’s totally not acceptable and frankly rubbish advice in this day and age. The brightest and best from any area deserve the best advice to achieve highly. I totally agree that teachers are often not best placed to give it, having narrow career experience themselves, inevitably. That is why they need to think about how they bring employers into schools and explore a variety of jobs. Making sure young people do the correct A levels and aim high would be a good start with a view to going to the best universities.

Sports people are extremely niche and supremely talented so very few are like them. I don’t find sport jobs needs to be championed in schools. We all have sports people we admire! However, far more young people can aspire to working in a variety of business roles - if only they know about them. They are not exclusive or middle class. They are open to everyone. The young person might then be open to moving away and earning a good salary if they know what can be achieved. Why cannot children from working class areas be lawyers and doctors? In the past many working class parents were desperate for their children to get a profession. They understood it was the best way out of poverty. They wanted better and didn’t accept wallowing in deprivation. There is no suggestion that anyone should lose their culture but attaining a professional job and aiming high does not remove your culture. If your culture means serious under achievement and a life of low wages then culture is being over stated!

Interesting thread.

Yes, I think it is far more useful to have a talk from a happy and successful HR manager or accountant than a sports person or singer.

We live in a deprived area and Into University have already done workshops in Y5. Our local high school also have a programme of uni visits and careers advice for all.

intouniversity.org/content/about-us-new

If children are taught by parents that they cannot open the box and find the rest of the world they are being culturally abused,
But the fact is that is life for thousands and thousands of students.

• oh I'll let you stay off today because it's only a day and we can do things (child ends up with attendance % of 80% so one day off a week)
• You don't need to do your homework because I need you to keep an eye on your siblings whilst I go out / go to work
• Don't worry about what those teachers say. They aren't gods and if they start then you walk out and I'll tell them exactly what I think.
• I could not my child out in the correct uniform and allow them to have a smooth day at school not getting picked up for it, but I won't. I'll buy neon yellow trainers and then kick off at the school about their stupid rules so my child can learn that I don't expect them to follow rules.
• You don't need (insert subject here), I did alright without it.
• there's no point worrying about GCSEs. Teachers go on about it because it makes them look good but I didn't get mine and you're uncle Timmy didn't and we've done just fine in life.
• Child tries to discuss post 16 options, but nobody in their family has done A Levels and it's expected you go to the local FE college and do a BTEC (nothing against that route by the way, but students should be exposed to the range of options)
• child hears parents and family laughing about people being geeks and nerds
• child hears nothing about university from home other than dismissive comments about it being full of posh people
• going to university probably involves leaving hometown but they live in an estate where there's families tjere for 4 generations, you leave school, get a job, get your own house/flat, get a job and have kids. Leaving such a close knit community is massive
• parents thinking that university isn't for people like us

And that's before you get to the fact that somewhere like St Andrews, Durham, Cambridge etc looks fancy in old buildings so the whole environment will feel very much 'not like me' vs a child from a private school with lots of alumni in and nice old buildings who will think 'yes this is me')

The challenge is breaking the cycle of low aspirations and enable students to see there's more out there

I hope you find some good ideas to help. But don't dismiss the vocational courses like BTecs as only being for students who won't get 8s and 9s, particularly if someone wants to work and/or study further in the areas which those qualiifications cover.

Do local colleges and post-16 providers do events school pupils could attend? Is anything on offer at the University of Hull or other local HE institutions?

If you have a significant amount of kids on free school meals, then the school will get funding which it it has to spend on closing attainment gaps for those kids, Pupil Premium. Who plans how that money is spent and what is done with it? Is there potential to use any of that money for trips out of town, lunchtime or after school activities which could be used to broaden horizons?

FFS
BubblesBuddy
I never ever said poor or working class kids shouldn't be encouraged. Christ we have encouraged our Ds to be 1st in family to go to university. Even though you constantly say kids like him shouldn't.
But you need to show them that other poor/WC kids do it. Or they will say it not for the likes of me.
If people actually listened to poor/WC parents & kids to what works for them, there would be more in university

But you need to show them that other poor/WC kids do it. Or they will say it not for the likes of me.
There's something in this.

Hearing about how Tarquin and Amelia went from a leafy grammar school and made it to university despite being from a state school in Kent isn't going to resonate at all with a group of students in an area of industrial decline who still hear tales about how Thatcher ruined the area, the local school has a 40% pass rate at GCSE & some students still devide whether they like a teacher based on them having a regional accent or not (note - much easier with a regional accent vs received pronunciation with some).

Any project has to meet the students where they're at (and if they are anything like my old students, it will need to be done tactfully because if they think they're getting special treatment for being disadvantaged then the defences go up and they'll accuse you of feeling sorry for them).

Can I just point out that if you get 3x D in a btec extended diploma you get the same amount of ucas points as 3x alevel a. If you want to do something like engineering, computing, graphics, business, uniformed public services, motor sports ... they are a great option. Many RG universities accept them. Btecs are great for kids who know what they want to do. We have kids go on to university from doing a btecs a lot. A levels allow you to spread your options across more subjects.

ChoudeBruxelles
The main thing is students making an informed decision based on a full range of options.
Personally, trying to get into an RG uni with a vocational course requires a lot more research and knowledge of the system than doing A Levels (especially when factoring in that not all btec level 3s are the same weight etc).

I agree entirely about them being a good potential route for those who have a set career in mind and know a university will accept it.
I think if a child has home who really don't view a levels and uni as a pathway then trying to talk them round explaining lots of other stuff may well be more confusing for them.
E.g. when I worked in a disadvantaged area, uni wasn't really viewed as an option, let alone checking specific courses at specific universities at the start of Y11 to see what alternative post 16 options would be accepted.

It's easy to over estimate the knowledge of the system if we're familiar with it.

MaisyPops Knowledge of educational options is often quite poor. I know that. I’m just saying people shouldn’t rule out btecs for getting into good universities.

Another vote for getting old pupils in.

Trips out if you can to universities, work places, colleges, theatre...

If you can still get paper prospectuses then getting them to pick a course and reasons why could be incorporated into your lesson.

There is a lot of work being done by the careers and enterprise company trying to build links with schools and employers, using volunteer enterprise advisors and building networks, and funding going in.
www.careersandenterprise.co.uk. All schools will be expected to implement the gatsby benchmarks- a very pragmatic set of actions- www.gatsby.org.uk/education/focus-areas/good-career-guidance which give lots of ideas- the most important I think is having an integrated sustainable programme across the school. Ofsted will also be assessing school on this.

Maisy - I do agree with you. It’s a challenge to cut through ingrained cultural differences. However the deprived class culture should be challenged as much as the entitled middle class culture! I have never suggested people should not go to university if it’s right for them. When am I supposed to have said that, user?

I completely agree that there needs to be high aspiration, by everyone, if the child is capable and agree with the OP’s summary too.

However what I would like to see is where schools are able to break down more and more barriers by good teaching and actually giving the children the confidence to go the best universities and not just taking the local offering due to lack of confidence. I believe in mentoring as a useful tool to help shift ideas. I do appreciate the difficulties though.

I have never suggested that grammar school children would go down well in deprived areas but local employers, and indeed well known employers, are not necessarily looking for grammar school children if there are not any grammar schools in the area. Would it be acceptable to say that deprived children had no place saying anything to grammar school children? We should all be able to speak to each other if we have something useful to say. If deprived children won’t engage, the op, with her background, would be shown the door!

Even in deprived areas there are doctors, teachers and many progressional people - so aspire to these jobs. At least these are visible to local people. I love the idea that one of the most popular baby names, Amelia, is synonymous with grammar schools! Since when?

Have a look at the Brilliant Club website www.thebrilliantclub.org. They bring PhD students into schools with low participation in FE to teach university-style courses. The aspect that makes a big impact is visiting top universities. There is a launch trip with student guides and a graduation ceremony.
I'd try to push speaking skills - especially debating - and give advice on study skills.

It is no good just getting in professionals into a school. Yes we have 2 doctors surgeries in neighbouring market towm., 2 miles away. Non of the 10 doctors are locally born and all live in much posher areas and travel in.
Oxbridge send in outreach teams and students every year, always to either wyke or local independent schools. None are ever local to us, so in last 15 years 2 students from school have gone to Cambridge, none to Oxford. The 2 who went have ex Cambridge parents. It just proves not for us.
You need to provide like for like successful peers.
Finally most poor/WC people could tell many grammar or Eton kids loads, IMHO its the grammar and Eton types who look down on those WC and believe we have nowt worthwhile to say.
Christ Oxbridge always believes it outreach is superb, when its proved to be failing, why? Arogence or just not understanding poor/WC needs.
Look at mumsnet oxbridge threads most of the advise comes from grammar or private school parents. Plus loads of private parents thinking going to private will count against their Dc, when in fact you are still more likely to go from private then good comp and definitely crap comps

Also if you don't have a sixth form, some advice/ attempts to get them to consider others, rather than the usual destination.

Eg it is taken for granted that after the local school you progress to the nearest towns main college. It does have some good vocational courses, but their a-levels and academic route in general is pretty crap. Same for advice about which academic courses/ subjects to choose, and advice about higher education and careers.

However other schools with sixth forms can and do take pupils from the less desirable schools with great success, if they know to apply. Ditto two other good colleges within the same travel time, but unless the parents motivate it the pupils have no idea other choices exist.

It's naive to assume that all students capable of achieving straight 9s are capable of accessing the same carer choices. Self belief, resilience and the ability to communicate well with "important" people are integral to most high flying careers. Those skills are mostly learned from the home environment. Instead of trying to rocket a few bright kids into Oxbridge etc I think social change programmes should be about setting everyone's sights (including those who will just scrape a pass) a few steps higher higher than their starting point. Realistic, achievable goals, and gradual change over successive generations, are the keys to success.

Oh, and we should all stop telling kids from disadvantaged backgrounds that they are statistically not likely to achieve. That's like pulling them up with one hand and pushing them down with the other. Confidence is the key to success.

Have a look at the schemes offered by the social mobility foundation and Sutton trust.

There seems to be so much piss poor advice in schools. I hope it is better now but I remember the only careers advice I had was a stupid computer quiz that seemed to suggest most of our year should be butchers (even the veggies!) or undertakers.

There is too much focus on course when actually getting a good 2:1 from a high ranking university will stand you in good stead for many jobs. I knew people with great grades that went to crap universities because they liked the course structure or the student union rather than pushing for the best ranking institutions. That has cost them dearly in terms of job opportunities later down the line. Conversely, I remember people doing law at bottom tier universities with D’s at a-level and thinking they were going to walk into a corporate law job. Advice has to be realistic to the student’s ability and doors should be kept open where possible. Kids that could do medicine etc need to be supported early to secure work experience. There’s no point supporting them with their ucas statement if they haven’t had input before that.

Lots of big corporates are falling over themselves to offer social mobility programmes. It's a hot topic at the moment. See what is local to you.

User142 and Traindelays: I couldn’t agree more. Teachers are, generally, not best placed to give advice. Neither are very many past students if they haven’t actually achieved very much. I think each child needs a tailored portfolio of advice. Someone in schools really should know what is required for applications.

There are plenty of threads on MN where it’s often stated that a 1st from the university of Nowhere will trump a 2:1 from UCL or Durham. It won’t. Subject choices, university and degree classification all matter. I hate the idea that if you live in a certain area or have a certain type of parent, your horizons are drastically reduced. Someone has to break this cycle and stop assuming that deprived children can only be given info from people like them. It’s utter rubbish, parochial and defeatist.

Why would any bright child look at a Doctor from abroad and immediately think that wasn’t the career for them? That actually sounds a bit racist. Confidence to go for it and be supported is key. My DN thinks working in a shop will help with the Personal statement for Environmental Science. How? Someone has said it will. I’m not going to interfere, and the local university won’t care, but a better one would want to see more involvement with the subject. No one seems to be advising this course of action and if the local university is chosen, it won’t matter. However so much better is out there. No one really cares. I’m glad the op does.