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Secondary education

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Original poster

What are GCSE Grade 9s for...?

90 replies

Balootoyoutoo · 21/08/2018 18:43

Just that really. I work in a university but am also a mental health professional, and I'm struggling to see the point of them. They cause a shed-load of stress and angst, but for what...?

I understand that they were introduced to help distinguish between the very able and the exceptional, but how many universities really need to make that distinction? The University that I'm with (think lower tier Russell Group don't tell them I said that, I'm fairly sure it's an instant dismissal offence) is very unlikely to need them for selection purposes, for even our most competitive courses. In fact, the only universities that I can think will make any use of them are Oxbridge, and maybe Imperial and UCL for their most demanding degrees.

Did we really need to upheave the entire system and demand ever higher levels of perfectionism, in the interests of a tiny handful of universities? Or have I missed the point?

OP posts:
Holidayshopping · 21/08/2018 18:49

I just think it will become the old A (then subsequently the A*) as the top grade and won’t be particularly exceptional.

Then in a few years when everyone has loads of 9s, they’ll bring in the 10.

It’s daft really. My nephew got 3 A’s in his A levels and was saying it’s the same as me, as I got 3 A’s. But, is it? There are A* now, which there weren’t when I took them, so aren’t his the same as 3 old Bs?! However, I didn’t say that!!

It’s like the first division of the football league. Now there’s the premier and the championship leagues, the first division, is now the third!

Olivo · 21/08/2018 18:56

Holiday, that would annoy me too. I explained to my students that the grades needed to get on to the course I did at university are now all one grade higher than when I went, so I equate my gained grades to one grade higher now! They think it is hilarious I 'only got an A' in my teaching subject. I tell them I got 100%, then they move on Grin

I really worry about the pressure on students who decide to aim for 9s.

Dickybow321 · 21/08/2018 19:00

I agree with holiday. They inflate the grades and then keep having to bring out new 'top' grades.

Dickybow321 · 21/08/2018 19:01

A 7 is not equivalent to an A back in the day. It's more like a B.

leccybill · 21/08/2018 19:04

The top 3% of Grade 8s will be 9s I read somewhere.
Also read a teacher might only ever see one or two 9s in their whole career.
Again, what's the point?

Holidayshopping · 21/08/2018 19:10

Also read a teacher might only ever see one or two 9s in their whole career.

Really?!

Loads of kids have been predicted 9s at my DS’s school.

wurzelburga · 21/08/2018 19:11

This change was all about Michael Gove’s ego/insecurities. There will be no benefit to students, schools or employers.

Original poster
Balootoyoutoo · 21/08/2018 19:14

In fact, I'd be interested to know if even Oxbridge will be that interested in them. A friend's DD (exceptionally able, hugely interesting and creative thinker) will take GCSEs next year and has been told to 'tone it down a bit' if she wants top grades. Too much creativity can steer you away from the marking scheme, apparently. Is that right? If so, they're not much use to the high flyers, either.

OP posts:
wurzelburga · 21/08/2018 19:15

Oxbridge/Imperial and many other competitive courses have their own well developed aptitude tests taken in Y13 which identify those students with a real aptitude for advanced studies in particular subjects. There is no added value from a change in grading for Y11 exams.

Original poster
Balootoyoutoo · 21/08/2018 19:18

Yes, I think you are right Wurzelburga. Unfortunately, this isn't the message that kids are getting.

OP posts:
Teenageromance · 21/08/2018 19:18

I agree with the OP so much. It’s ridiculous having a grade only a few can obtain.

pipilangstrumpf · 21/08/2018 19:20

Let's see what proportion of grades will be 9? It may be more than we think?

Original poster
Balootoyoutoo · 21/08/2018 19:23

Does anyone know what proportion of entries are expected to be awarded 9s? I've just googled and got conflicting info.

OP posts:
Dickybow321 · 21/08/2018 19:25

The top 20% of papers getting grades 7 and over will be awarded a grade 9, so they won't be quite that rare. Where did you read the 3% stat leccybill? That is incorrect.

Also read a teacher might only ever see one or two 9s in their whole career.
I very much doubt this. I'm sure there will be a fair few on Thursday.

noblegiraffe · 21/08/2018 19:40

leccy it’s the top 3-ish percent of the whole cohort for English and maths, not top 3% of those who got 8s.

The percentage of entries getting a 9 varies from subject to subject depending on difficulty. I think over 10% for each triple science, nearly 50% of those taking Classical Greek will get a 9 etc.

noblegiraffe · 21/08/2018 19:43

The top 20% of papers getting grades 7 and over will be awarded a grade 9

This was the original plan but was changed to a formula.
Percentage of those achieving at least a grade 7 who will be awarded a grade 9 = 7% + 0.5 × (percentage of students awarded grade 7 and above)

Dickybow321 · 21/08/2018 19:46

noble so roughly the percentage of students who got A the year the A was introduced? 2.8% in 1994 versus 7.3% in 2012:
www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/sep/17/gcse-exams-replaced-ebacc-history-pass-rates#data

DumbledoresApprentice · 21/08/2018 19:51

I’m hoping for at least a couple of 9s in my class this Thursday. They are going to be less common than A*s but not vanishingly rare. I have about 7 girls in my class who I think will get an 8 and I hope at least one or two of them get a 9 (although I wouldn’t try to guess which ones).
Although I wasn’t in favour of changing the grading system, and I think the change wasn’t necessary there is actually some logic behind having 9 grades. Previously around 2/3 of the grades awarded were A-C and around 1/3 were D-G. A-C and D-G each represented half of the grades. Now the top 2/3 of the grades (9-4) will go to the top 2/3 of the entries and the bottom 1/3 (1-3) will go to the bottom 1/3 of the entries. Put like that it’s actually quite neat.

noblegiraffe · 21/08/2018 19:51

Hah Dicky that’s pretty funny!

Original poster
Balootoyoutoo · 21/08/2018 19:53

God, Dickybow, that's pretty telling, isn't it...?

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 21/08/2018 19:54

Now the top 2/3 of the grades (9-4) will go to the top 2/3 of the entries

How do you figure that? It depends on last year’s A*-C which isn’t 66%. Maths was 71%

DumbledoresApprentice · 21/08/2018 19:57

But the overall A-C last year was 66.3%. There will be variability from subject to subject but seeing as a 4 is going to be roughly pegged to last year’s C around 2/3 of results this year will be grades 9-4.

Dickybow321 · 21/08/2018 20:03

Yes it's really telling! Grade inflation over the years is real:it's there in black and white. They kept increasing the proportion getting the top grades year after year until the A was the old A. Now they've realised A doesn't really distinguish between the top students so they've gone back to the old system. No doubt it will happen again and they'll introduce a grade 10.

Dickybow321 · 21/08/2018 20:05

Year on year kids were getting better grades due to this , which looks great for governments. Makes me wonder why they've reformed it.

noblegiraffe · 21/08/2018 20:06

Comparable outcomes mean that grade inflation can’t happen any more.

But the government also want increasing standards.