St Paul's boys/ Kings Wimbledon A level results

[Knowledge111]

Hi
DS will come up for the 11+ in a couple of years and I am collating some info to educate myself. I've seen the A levels for a few schools and KCS is a neutral choice ( should he make it) due to their new system of 11+. Their A level results seem to be lower than 2017 too? Please could anyone share any data they have for St Paul boys from this year ? Thanks!

The thing is with KCS that about half the year group do IB and half do A Levels. So you can't do a straight comparison with St Paul's.

This year KCS got 42% A star and 94% A star, A and B.

I really wouldn't choose between the schools on very small % differences - both of high achieving schools. You should choose the best fit for your son - probably the most local!

Thanks sandybaley for your reply. I thought that the IB results were separate to reporting the A levels? As you wisely say, I am definitely not going to base decisions on A level results alone but KCS only came into the picture for me in 2017 when they published that they were the top independent secondary in the country. It is a sweeping statement so I was keeping an eye on their results.

Yes IB and A Level results are reported separately. The thing is that IB is a tough option so many strong all rounder candidates will opt for it, which may have an impact on the % of top grades achieved by the A level cohort.

A top score at IB is I think a different kind of achievement to straight A stars at A level as it requires the candidate to be an all rounder.

It's also worth noting that at KCS most candidates take 4 A levels / though St Paul's may do the same.

The 2018 A level cohort also had the best GCSE results ever, just a very bright year. DS is 2019 KCS cohort and most of them only sat 3 A levels, the table works out to 3.3 per candidate so not many sat 4 A levels and those who did will usually be doing Maths/Further maths combo often with Physics as well so there's overlap. Languagey people also seem to do an extra one.

For boys I think its only Westminster where they all sit 4.

Typo I meant the 2017 and 2018 cohorts of course.

Thanks both! Pardon the question since it is also out of being fairly new to the UK: how do they arrive at saying that they are top in the country then if they have both A levels and IB to toggle between for results? Is it not fair then to say that overall, St Paul's might have better results by a wider margin than portrayed? Again, I am not all on results but it does casts doubts when schools have wider options for reporting results. That to me would signal that it would be an academic hothouse.

Also KCS were not the top independent in the country last year anyway!

It says so on their website, as per Sunday Times it says.

Yes one newspaper (the times) chose them as their school of the year based on a range of criteria not just results. At this level these are all great schools with outstanding results / you need to pick the one that best suits your ds.

It is difficult to compare on A level/IB results but St Pauls sends more to Oxbridge every year and more to the very top US unis. You also need to take into account that the St Pauls cohort is all their own coming up from 7+, 8+ etc whereas KCS has a large intake of high achieving girls for 6th form.
I think overall St Pauls is probably stronger academically, and particularly for maths where they do extremely well at olympiad level.

I am a bit dubious about Sunday Times awards, they tend to go to PR hungry schools with the biggest marketing budget. Remember when Wellington was the most talked about school in the UK? And the Kings' HT writes for the Sunday Times.

@cakeisalwaystheanswer - interesting to hear that not everyone takes 4 A Levels. DS1 is about to start 6th Form and we have been told that he should expect to continue with the four he starts with.

@Knowledge111 - There is so much more to these schools than results and the differences academically are really very marginal. Go with the one which suits your son - go to some open days and talk to the boys. You'll soon find out which works for you if you do have a choice. But both of great schools.

If you look at KCS A level results they are distorted heavily by more students opting to study IB (exam yr 2018) and their IB results are incredibly impressive for a large cohort...I think they are a progressive school by encouraging pupils to take the IB - It is more challenging and widely accepted outside the UK.
Not sure about St Pauls all being 7+ there is a massive in take at 13 plus CE...again its a excellent school.
The A level results are rather odd this year...(although I think KCS have a reason larger IB cohort)...but I have looked at several schools - Perse included (who were second in the table last year) and their results are down on last year YET the press have stated that more DC have achieved higher grades...

There is certainly more to education than results and finding the right school to suit your DS will mean he will achieve his full potential. Good luck ...

Certainly more to it that immediately meets the eye. PR drive is also what struck me and new investment influx from other countries. Many moons ago, a friend we know had a DS at KCS and he himself tells me it is not the same as before. I am widening my scope of search for sure. DS is quite sporty but more importantly, I want a school where the parents and student alike reflect what being in a mixed society sis all about and not adhere to any promotions further made complicated if fees are involved!

IB parent here.

To get a high score in the IB does not just require that you're an 'all rounder'. You have to be bloody good all round! It's like doing 3 A levels + 3 AS levels + EPQ + DofE (minus the walk) all at once. Fail one element and you fail the whole lot. Maximum possible score (45) is attained by ~0.6% world wide.

If you've got a school getting high IB scores then they are very, very high achieving pupils.

Thanks BringOnTheScience. Your point holds good if there is a child suited for IB. My view now is more from A levels perspective and of course from what the school is promoting itself for. I don’t know yet which school my DS would be best suited for but it’s important that I gather information.

Oneteen - I wrote 7+,8+etc to save myself writing 7+,8+,9+,10+,11+,13+! The point I was trying to make is that they don't have a huge 6th form intake like Kings. Top performing girls join from LEH, Wimbledon, JAGS etc.

sandy - as you can see from this years figures most drop the 4th subject. Unis don't want 4 except a few if your DS is doing FM/Maths so he shouldn't feel pressured.

Knowledge - if you look at the KCS results in details you will see that of the 160 A results, 88 of these were achieved by DCs getting 4 or 3 As at A level. These are the DCs who have spent the last 2 years in the library slogging. If you go into any school library in the UK you will find children doing the same, schools like KCS just have a lot more of them.

SP Boys doesn't publish its A Level results until November for some weird reason. They're both fantastic schools, you should not let a tiny discrepancy in results either way influence your decision but go on a) which is nearer to you - very important and b) which one you like the feel of best. Assuming your ds has offers from both.

Really the difference in the results at KCS year on year is pretty small. They are still very impressive results. Any of these schools are pretty good. At the end of the day, it will be up to how bright your DC is and whether he works and applies himself at the key times. Ie. at the exam times.

Just a sneaky mention that the state sixth form King's College London Maths School (KCLMS) beats KCS and is likely equal to St Paul's in terms of A Level results. The stats are up on their website. Granted, this is for a narrower range of A levels (KCLMS pupils all take A Levels in Maths, Further Maths, Physics and either AS Econ or AS Comp Sci). Their Oxbridge rate is also 20% (23% last year). Their value added score puts them near the top of the value added tables and they were Sunday Times State Sixth Form College of the Year 2017. Worth considering if your DC is mathsy and would be happy with the narrow choice of subjects, fewer facilities and no grounds to speak of. DD was in the class of 2017.

this was the Indie result by A */A at A level last year

Some schools don't allow their results in the league tables though so not entirely accurate.

I've heard great things about KCLMS but too early for me to figure out how maths oriented my child is I think. He's keen but equally about Science, Art etc. I will of course try some top grammars (would end up being first choice if he gets in) depending on location and whether we like what we see during open day.

I have actually become quite concerned about this thread.

The 2018 KCS cohort was not as bright as the previous year but they are a very nice bunch, they've always got on well amongst themselves and there have never been any problems with bullying etc. Quite a few of them had poor results at the end of lower 6th but no-one was asked to leave and everyone stayed for IB/A levels.

What worries me is if prospective parents then look at these results critically because they are not as good as last year, that puts the school under pressure to "weed out" at the end of lower 6th and remove anyone who will make a negative impact on their results.
For the schools it all sounds a bit damned if you do, damned if you dont. But as a parent I think they called it right.

Cake- I think there will always be some parents who are obsessed with league tables etc but having just been through the 11+ with DD and starting to think about DS I found most parents were keen to find the right school for their DCs, especially with the boys. Particularly on the Kings/St Paul's choice I know many people who only applied to one or the other as they found them very different and we are geographically pretty much in the middle of them both.