Any teachers here? Do mixed ability classes work?

[SpoonsAndForks]

I need to hurry up and decide whether my DS takes up his state school place for September or stays on at his private school.

His state school has mixed ability classes for all subjects apart from maths and English.

I'd like to know (especially from teachers) how this works with 32 children of very different ability. Is it really possible to differentiate and offer the right amount of challenge for each child?

How does it work in language classes where some children have already had 2 years lessons on the language and others are beginners?

Do the more academic kids suffer and end up not reaching their full potential or can they still fly academically?

Didn't work for me as student or as a teacher. I got noticeably better results in the subjects that were setted than those that were mixed ability.
The teacher just didn't have time (this was in O Level days) to teach the fine detail which was needed then to secure the top grades.
In my experience of current teaching, the high ability students go to extra 'study clubs' which are run in lunch times and which enable them to pick up these extra grades. In theory the study clubs are open to all but in practice it's only the motivated ones who attend.

I'm not a teacher, but had experience of a mixed ability experiment in the 80s in secondary school. It lasted all of a term. The kids that wanted to knuckle down were constantly interrupted by those for whom the content was too much, and they messed around constantly. I remember it being awful, sorry.

@mmzz There are lots of students who don't understand the concept of multiplying. Even some who struggle with number bonds. Teachers have to be armed with very many different strategies to try and tap into the needs of each student. Necessarily this takes time and for maths especially means it's next to impossible to teach mixed ability effectively. The lowest ability will always lose out and the top ability invariably too.

The 80s is 30 years ago !!

The 80s is 30 years ago !!

That's why I offered my year 11 DS's experience of being in set classes, and mixed ability classes at primary and secondary school.

He thinks setting is better too, even when it would've meant he'd have been in the bottom set.

It doesn’t matter whether it was 30 years ago or 30 minutes ago if “the kids that wanted to knuckle down were constantly interrupted by those for whom the content was too much, and they messed around constantly...”.

Yes, but I offered my experience as a teacher of teaching both systems at the same time in two different subjects now. I'd swap any of my setted groups for the mixed ability classes I teach in my other subject.

My DS also thinks setting is better. Doesn't mean he is right!

It's all about the school, the quality of teaching and its systems. It is very rare to fins a comp with completely setted classes in every subject so usually students will receive a diet of different experiences.

It does matter because the educational landscape was entirely different 30+ years ago. Perhaps we should bring back the cane because 40 years ago they had it and those that weren't caned thought it was marvellous?

Oh don’t be silly piggy it matters not one jot what the “educational landscape” (barf!) was like, if pupils mess about and disrupt others. We’re talking about mixed ability vs sets, not beating children. 🙄

“...will receive a diet of different experiences.”. also barf. What is wrong with “...will receive different experiences”?

We call this “crapspeak”!

I suppose the question is whether, in today's schools, there genuinely are a large number where pupils mess around and disrupt others, and whether, again today, that is more prevalent in mixed ability classes or in sets?

Or do sets mean that some classes are disrupted much more while others are disrupted much less, and is that fair to the hard-working children of any ability? (Obviously you will like it if your child is disrupted less - but what if only 10% of children are disrupted less, and 90% disrupted more - do we sacrifice the 90% for the benefit of the 10%?)

DD's school had an interesting trial in lower years whereby potential ringleaders of disruption were placed, sometimes with support, 1 by 1 in all sets, regardless of their displayed attainment, thereby pro-actively avoiding the potential concentration of disruptive children in specific ability groups.

It was, by all accounts, very successful for the 'receiving' sets and for the sets from which those pupils were removed.

I have only ever taught set classes from yr 8 on, so it is interesting to read the experience of teachers who teach mixed sets. I’ve got a smallish (20) set of kids who are set 4 of 6 doing double science. They find the subject hard and their self esteem about their progress and ability in GCSEs generally is very fragile. The literacy level is low and the number of students who qualify for support in exams is high. This shapes how I teach all of them in terms of support given with written materials and I can genuinely enthuse in class about progress that against more able kids would look underwhelming. Stopping them throwing their hands up and saying ‘I can’t it’s too hard’ is going to be a major factor in whether I can get them through the exam. I feel that with a few exceptions a mixed ability class would risk leaving a significant number of them behind completely. Then I read teachers on here talking about how it works and doubt myself!

I am not being silly. My experience as a teacher has been routinely dismissed on this thread,actually, depsite me having the msot relevant and up to date experience of BOTH systems AT THE SAME TIME. And despite me being one of the targte audience of the OP's OP.

A diet of different experiences implies they will get bits of different things all at the same time. Different experiences implies students get different experiences from each other.

Who are we ??
Barf.

I teach science in mixed ability sets. It's ok for the middle but I always feeling I'm failing the brightest and least able. You have to teach to the middle and hope you can stretch the more able and pull the least along. Especially now with the increased level of maths. I'm rearranging complex equations in the same class as kids that can't multiply by ten. They feel lost and disillusioned and their behaviour shows it. In the meantime the brightest might have only needed 5 minutes on something I'm spending a few lessons on....

Don't like it

cath , i do think it depends on a) the subject and b) how exam focused and target driven one's teaching beliefs and culture are. And I mean no offence by that.

I teach discussion type subjects and also ones that require high levels of literacy for success. I have a lovely set 7 (of 8) . Their behaviour is good , they are nice students, but they drift and are hard to keep on task. I honestly believe there are many of them who would achieve better with a range of students, including the more able. I also teach a set 6, who are vile (well, the point is they aren't : the critical mass is anti learning), a set 1 , who are arrogant and also anxious, and two mixed ability groups who make my day each and every time I see them.

As further evidence , I would say a 2017 Ofsted visited a mixed ability class of mine and the set 7. They heaped praise on the progress of all learners (sorry , a barf word, but their word) and their engagement in the mixed ability group. They were less positive about what went on in the set 7 lesson: I think I have settled for manners , not causing too much trouble and scraping by for the set 7. It certainly made me reflect.

“depsite me having the msot relevant and up to date experience of BOTH systems AT THE SAME TIME“

Huh? The MOST relevant of whom?

Of everyone who has commented on the thread? Or the whole world?!

The most relevant on the thread.Obviously.

I should say 'amongst the most relevant' perhaps.

We have already established OP's school sets for maths and English, which is the norm. I teach mixed ability at the moment, in a comprehensive school; and I also teach classes in sets.

I fail to grasp what your beef is with me, other than that you don't agree with me?

cant that is precisely what we used to do when we had mixed ability groupings in English at my school. Now, Data Is King. Our data manager puts together the sets.

Piggy, what i thought was interesting was that they did it in setted subjects, as well as mixed ability ones.

So DD's top set had a ringleader whose native intelligence was normally wholly directed towards disruption, and whose attainment was therefore low. With support - and without anyone to distract, as that particular top set was also compliant - they did well, and the experience of the top set was basically unaffected.

Yes, I'd like to see a lot more massaging of groupings , taking into account the humans involved and not just their attainment.Definitely.

Bloody hell! You are actually saying you have the most relevant experience of everyone on the thread?!

“Massaging of groups” 😂

God help us all!

Amongst the most relevant, yes. I can't see why that is an incorrect statement. Do you require my CV?

oh DFOD