Grammar schools and SEN

[MrsFrogBottom]

I know all schools have to have a SEN policy, but what is life really like on the ground for kids with SEN at grammars? Would a SEN diagnosis be a reason to choose to send to a comp rather than grammar for a high-achiever? Would it be any different to at any other school?

Probably a question for any school, but with a diagnosis, what adjustments are actually made in school? At the end of the day, disruptive behaviour is disruptive behaviour, regardless of "reasons" for it - so presumably schools have to discipline in the same way as they would for any child? Does this mean SEN children spend their time constantly living out consequences - detentions etc? This must be hugely detrimental to their mental health.

I'd be interested to hear others' experience as a parent of a child with SEN considering secondary options. Posting here for traffic as the SEN boards seem to be very quiet with few responses!

Hi MrsFrogbottom,
My DD has SEN (ADD, with associated SpLD). We started her at the local "excellent" state comp in year 7 ( the school everyone in the area wants their child to go to). It was n't a good experience. They refused to acknowledge her diagnosis, despite all the info from her primary school and paediatric consultant. As a result, she didn't get any support of understanding, was punished for forgetting books, didn't get the extra time she qualified for in exams and was miserable.

We moved her to an independent girls school that is also rated excellent. The pastoral care is miles better but, being selective, they have next to no experience of knowledge of ADHD and, 2 years in, we are still fighting to get the right support for her ( to be fair to the school, they are at least trying to put things in place, but the emphasis is still largely on DD to make sure she's on top of things, which kind of misses the point). In a meeting with the head recently, we were told they " are not a special school", which perhaps tells you how they feel about having to deal with SEN. Unfortunately, the school also seems a bit disorganised/ old fashioned in the way it runs ( they have an online portal but don't use it for homework etc, preferring physical planners, for example), so that doesn't help a child with organisation issues.
Whilst you make a good point about disruptive behaviour being disruptive, regardless of the cause, I think a school with good support and scaffolding for children with SEN will hopefully result in less disruption due to SEN issues, if that makes sense.

We are actually considering moving my DD to DS's school, because of the way his school runs generally - it is highly efficient, well organised, caring etc, all of which would have a positive effect on DD, even if the SEN support was lacking.

It will depend on the nature of the SEND surely. A child with high functioning ASD, for example, may do very well in a grammar school, especially if it’s very structured. On the other hand, they might not respond well in subjects they don’t engage with.

A child with a global difficulty wouldn’t get a grammar school place, I think, because they wouldn’t be able to cope with the academic content.

If you’re thinking of SEND in terms of behaviour difficulty, I imagine the school would expect that every child will follow the school rules and sanctions will be applied for non compliance. So I suppose that could mean that they will be frequently sanctioned if they can’t manage their own behaviour. I think there’s less flexibility and fewer allowances made , because there is such an academic focus.

Not a parent of a SEN child but I teach in a grammar school. We do have SEN kids but as someone else has said, not those with global delays. We have a number of ASD students and those with visual or hearing impairments. Whilst our (v good) SENCO has a number of strategies that we can all access, because of the relatively low numbers of SEN kids, we do not have a bank of TAs or LSAs who can assist in class as sadly, these kids bring no funding unless they have an ECHP. Much of the extra help that might be needed comes from form tutors and Year Heads who obviously have 30 other kids to deal with.

Disruptive behaviour is the exception rather than the rule, and those that do attempt to disrupt the learning of others are dealt with quickly. A number of our ASD students have get-out-of-class cards that if they feel they are becoming overwhelmed, they show their card and go to a designated place, normally for a few minutes until they feel ready to return.

Where I live, the existing Headteachers have to submit reports on suitability for a grammar school education. Therefore if it’s a behaviour problem, you do have to think how this can be managed in a grammar school because they are simply not used to it nor staffed for it. If, it’s Dyslexia, they will see it and be more used to it, however, even then, it’s difficult to get a place if reading speed is slow.

Look around any school that’s a possibility and see what’s most likely to suit. You don’t want to have an exclusion on your hands and time out zones are pretty rare in grammar schools.

We might just be lucky, and also my son with asd hasn't actually started at his grammar school yet. BUT do far they have been amazing. Asked our opinion so many times..realky tajen our advice on organising his two entry tests. Arranging ectra visits before he starts and drawn up plans and information to help him settle in with staff and the school.

In my son's case we think they are dealing with the asd really well do far. Although we don't know for sure yet others with children higher up the school with Sen, report it has been very good.

Thank you everyone for your replies!! Sorry for the delayed response, we were away this weekend. My son doesn't have a diagnosis yet but we suspect ADHD and possible ASD. He is very able but can be disruptive as he loses focus and works very quickly then gets bored/distracted. I hope the grammar will challenge him which will help but I worry discipline will be a problem wherever he goes...just was wondering if he'd have more trouble at grammar than a normal school as they may have less experience and also maybe higher expectations of behaviour?

On the contrary I think your able son's behaviour will be better at the grammar school . A strict school with a set of standards regarding homework, politeness (such as standing up for a teacher entering a room ) gives routine to children with additional needs

This provided with little adaptions. These being such as a card system etc allowing a time out when the pupil is overwhelmed .
However, I think many 'able' children with additional needs a finality in sanctions with misbehaviour, opposed to individual allowances.

We moved my (SEN) 17 year old son to a non selective private school 2 years ago (which though non selective operates as strictly as my 2 DDs grammar school does ) The result being my son has gone from level 2/3 predicted GCSE Maths/English etc to god willing level 6 this August !

This totally being due to a strict but caring attitude , thus not enabling a child to play on their needs

Depends what needs and which grammar! My Dd's school has quite a number on the inclusion register (including her) and seems to support them well.

@Foxy333 What school is this please

@W00t would you mind sharing which school this is please? Looking for something similar for my son! He has asd and adhd but seems very able!

From my experience grammars often have more SEN - a lot of very bright children are autistic. My son has inattentive ADHD and we medicated him for his GCSE exam period - pushed his grades up for everything in one case a predicted 5 ended up 1 point off a 9. But sorry I can't tell you about combined ADHD - I suspect there are children there but I think hyperactive behaviour is going to be a struggle I am sorry in any classroom?