"Isolation booths" - normal?!

[freegazelle]

Read this report about isolation booth use in an academy. Are these really normal in secondary schools now?! How are they legal? I don't know what I'd do if this happened to my DS.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/children-isolated-for-7-hours-a-day-in-consequence-booths-at-academies-mp_uk_5b33a1a5e4b0b5e692f35b59

We've got rid of isolation altogether. Tbf, before it was a nightmare, work set was shite, computers were vandalised, walls graffitied (no we couldn't see into all the booths) the kids responsible would get punished by... Yep, you guessed it. Kids kicked off because they could and would get isolated on purpose so they could skive. Now, its removal for supervision by slt for rest of lesson, with a detention. Continued disruption after school detentions. Severe disruption-fixed term exclusion. Behaviour has improved.

I don't agree with them for petty reasons. The school I worked at, before finally leaving teaching, did naff all about behaviour.

It isn't teachers who decide who goes in the isolation rooms. It is SLT or pastoral leads.

I was assaulted twice in my last year. One pupil got a few days fixed term, the other got nothing.

@letstalk

I went to a highly selective specialist school - thousands every year trying for tens of places. We always forgot our pens, lost planners in first week of term and wrote our homework on bits of paper (only the really odd people kept their planners). We didn't have uniform at all. The closest thing to isolation we ever got was having to work in the corridor for 20 minutes occasionally. Everyone still got straight A*s.

This is a weird example, but my point is bright children at high achieving schools doesn't mean perfect discipline and blazers worn at all times.

Work not being provided happens on a regular, regular basis. Or there is ridiculous low-level worksheet work. Busy work. Word searches. Etc etc. 99% is a waste of time.

Remember, when I and my colleagues have visited these schools the heads know we are coming and this is what we see.

I think internal exclusion has a place and a purpose but I have very, very rarely seen a school where it is used in the right place and has the resources to serve the right purpose.

It’s a dumping ground for disruptive students. I am not saying the students are right, or defending them for being disruptive but they need to be provided with the opportunity to be educated in internal exclusion.

I just checked the behaviour policy at my local secondary and they have an "inclusion" room that should only be used rarely to punish behaviour that "might otherwise result in exclusions" - ie assault, aggressive use offensive language. In their policy it says work must be provided.

For more minor things its a scale from verbal warning, loss of "reward points" (they also have a positive behaviour reward system) to short detentions in break. One hour after-school detentions seem to be a big deal that involves department heads and parents.

If they actually apply that policy properly, that sounds fair enough and far more along the lines of what I'd expect from a comprehensive in the 21st century.

Yes freegazelle. So why would a pretty quiet surburban town implement such Victorian measures for their students? And what can be done about it? I feel uneasy about the school but don't know what to do about it.

And anyway with low level disruption in class, I think teachers should deal with it, not just put a pupil in a booth all day. Its part of a teacher's job surely

the teacher is there to teach, the students are there to learn, how much of your child's education do you consider acceptable to lose so the teacher can quit teaching and "deal with low level disruption in class" instead.

10%??
40%??

I can't count the number of days I've seen it reach 100%.

Pupils contributing to this are sabotaging the life chances of their peers.

I have long thought they need to be brought to account properly, sued for loss of earnings, ideally, and made to spend their lives repaying to their classmates what they have caused them to lose out on.

Why on Earth would anyone object to isolation booths being used to curtail this behaviour?

And the schools which clamp down on the "petty" things, such as forgetting a pen, etc, on the ones who have behaviour under control.

Thankfully, I currently work in a school which does this. In previous schools I have seen 20-25% of lesson time wasted just providing pupils with the basic equipment they should be ashamed to some without. Not only that, but quite often teachers end up paying for class stationary themselves, and it can run into the £hundreds when there are no consequences for forgetting a pen, ruler, rubber etc.Very few pieces of lent out property are returned in good condition, if returned at all - I saw a pupil return a borrowed ruler having wiped his bum with it last year.

Do you want your child to be allowed to forget their ruler, and be the next person to be lent that one?

So you have never forgotten anything? What's wrong with borrowing a friend's pen? And why can a pupil never talk one word to another pupil in class without a detention. What with breaks going, how wilĺ they ever get to know their peers? And also surely a toilet break and drink is important.

this is why i plan on privately educating, not a fan.

Clairetree - in what capacity do you 'work in a school'? I really, really hope it's not as a teacher.

When I taught in the UK we had this - but it was used sensibly.

So if a student was patting about: first warning, second warning, time out THEN collected by on call behaviour manager & removed to the sin bin.

Each department had its own time out timetable; kids would be sent to a lesson being taught to a different year group, to discourage 'oh all my mates are in set 3, I'd quite like to be sent there'. We worked it out carefully so that the designated time out room was always the one with the best behaved class &/or sternest teacher.

If you were still being disruptive having been dispatched to top set y7 or whatever, then the teacher in that room would message the office & you would be removed to the isolation room.

Time out meant a detention. Isolation meant you were there for the rest of the day & the following day up until that lesson (so if your behaviour had resulted in isolation last lesson on Tuesday, you would only rejoin your peers last lesson Wednesday ).

If you found yourself in iso more than once in a term, you & your parents met with the Head before you were allowed back into classes. If you continued to be a pain, things started escalating towards exclusion.

It worked pretty well. Everybody else got to get on with learning without the disruptive element. Most kids were never in isolation, & those that were generally hated it & made sure it didn't re - occur.

We kept banks of subject specific work for students. Not perfect because there's only so much you can learn from a worksheet BUT if someone is continually disrupting lessons they aren't learning much anyway.

Sending kids to iso for forgotten pens is just silly. I pick up every pen left on the floor or on desks & keep them in a jar on a side table with dictionaries etc. If a student rocks up without a pen, they know the deal is that they are welcome to take one. If they do so as soon as they enter & don't disrupt anyone by faffing about trying to borrow one, or expecting me to deliver it to their table, we're good.

Yep a bootcamp school near me is terrifying and sometimes makes the news. Famously they had isolation for wrong length of ruler or length of skirt .

They didn't have this when I was at school - I first saw 'isolation' on one of those Educating SomewhereorOther programmes and my first though was that it looked like an absolute DREAM. I found school socially very difficult, just wanted to crack on with my work in peace and quiet away from everybody else. I'd have been getting myself into isolation every day....

The 'booths' I've seen are just like little cubicles. We had exactly the same things in my university library on the study floor. I loved them then as well. Nothing says 'go away and leave me to my essay' quite like choosing a cubicle over a shared table.

Teachers aren't banning all talking and I never minded borrowing a pen of a friend. Have you been in a secondary classroom recently?

I'm talking about one child/group feeding back answers wide as while other kids talk/mess around. Or randomly shouting out when I've asked a particular person. Or not starting work, then claiming its my fault cos they don't have a pen. These are 14 and 15 year old who never have a pen. They don't bring a bag.

I used to make them leave a deposit for a pen. Usually a shoe. They rarely left without bringing it back. I couldn't afford to buy endless pens. After the first few weeks they come from my own money.

There is usually a prescribed process.

Eg

bad behaviour x 1 - name on board
bad behaviour x 1 - tick next to name on board
bad behaviour x 3 - detention
failure to attend detention - isolation.

They are not sitting looking at the wall, they will have work to do, they are not missing out on education they are missing the social side of education.

The not having a pen, I've been in schools where an equipment check takes place in form time each morning and students are given a chance to borrow a pen/pencil/ruler.

Doing supply I have lost so many pens I have glittery ones with 'stolen from Ms X' on them, and usually they come back, it was worth the expense.

I think teachers should deal with it, not just put a pupil in a booth all day. Its part of a teacher's job surely.

It is definitely part of my job to issue a consequence for poor behaviour. BUT if the student chooses to ignore that consequence, what should I do?

Let's say I give a student a 15 minute detention for persistently talking when I am talking. Student refuses to attend that detention, so I escalate it to a 30 minute after school detention. Student refuses to attend that detention, so I escalate it to an hour SLT detention. Etc. At some point they will end up in isolation, ostensibly for talking in class, but actually for their utter disregard for my authority and that of the school. And that is absolutely fair enough.

With a couple of exceptions, it seems that the "this isn't what I pay my taxes for" posters on this thread are basing their opinions on what they've seen on TV or read somewhere rather than on experience.

Schools will have a behaviour policy as described by a PP. Non-persistent low level disruption is dealt with by the teachers, in the classroom, day in, day out. Then there is a clear path of escalating sanctions with internal exclusion near the top. Internal exclusion removes the student from the classroom where they are disrupting the learning of the other 29 students ( as well as their own). They work quietly on the work provided by their teachers, under the eye of a member of SLT.

It's actually a massive faff to staff internal exclusion rooms and provide and mark the work provided; it's not done just to save teachers the bother of dealing with lost pens in the classroom.

The above applies to your average state secondary. I know there are a new wave of zero tolerance behaviour policy schools and, while I can see pros and cons in their approach, I wouldn't choose to send my own child to a school with those policies in place.

So if a student was patting about: first warning, second warning, time out THEN collected by on call behaviour manager & removed to the sin bin...

If you were still being disruptive having been dispatched to top set y7 or whatever, then the teacher in that room would message the office & you would be removed to the isolation room.

How much lesson time is wasted following this policy, not in one class, but in two?

Local one is zero tolerence - they advertised for a "head of isolation " and basically said that if you were a kind nice person or disnt believe in putting a child in isolation for not having a pen it wasnt the job for you!!

ScaredPAD

'Basically said'? Or said? What did it actually say?

I think its clear from this thread there are many different ways of using these units. My view is that they are ok in severe forms of misbehaviour which could otherwise result in exclusion. But they should not be used as a routine punishment for trivial things - I'm kind of disturbed by the teachers on this thread defending that as its really annoying when people forget pens.

I also think they are being misused in a context of rising zero tolerance policies within certain academy trusts. I find this development really pathetic.

freegazelle

And I struggle to see how forgetting a pen or uniform breaches is disrupting the class. Thats beyond petty.

I love the pen one its a classic.
If a child has forgotten a pen they normally find a way of gettint one that doesn't disrupt.

However, you have the 'forgot my pen every lesson' children, these are the pupils that have been given pens yet lose them between classes.

It starts quite simply
Teacher is starting the lesson. Talking to the class
Pupil is making noise going through bag
Teachers stops. asks if they have a problem
Pupil response 'no.'
Teacher goes back to teaching
Pupil talks to mate,
Teacher stops and asks for silence
Pupil continues to talk to mate
Teacher pulls up pupil
Pupil, I was asking for a pen,
Teacher 'you should have one, it will wait till I finish'
Pupil is now out of seat "asking others"
Rinse and repeat as the pupil escalates until the teacher removes them form the room.

there are different variations of this but the pupil always claims its for the same thing
'I was just getting a pen'

Then there is the parent/teacher aftermath but lets not go there.

But they should not be used as a routine punishment for trivial things - I'm kind of disturbed by the teachers on this thread defending that as its really annoying when people forget pens.

But nobody - nobody I can see anyway - has suggested that a child should be bunged into isolation for raising their hand and saying, "Excuse me, can I borrow a pen? I have forgotten mine."

Have they?

Our school has a positive system, the pupils get stamps for every lesson but if there is minor disruptive behaviour they don't get a stamp but get a letter e.g. 'E' for missing Equipment or 'L' for late. Missing more than X stamps in a week results in detention.
Rewards for getting 1000 stamps in the year, y11s have to get a certain number to attend prom.
Seems to work well, and tutors & parents can also see issues starting as we have to sign planners weekly.

Pengg I remember that school, it was discussed on the Secondary board. The summary is pretty much as I remember it in terms of gist.

Pengg I remember that school, it was discussed on the Secondary board. The summary is pretty much as I remember it in terms of gist.

But - as much as I understand that people might not remember - I didn't ask for the gist. Often, when someone gives me the gist of what was said, then I look at what was actually said, I don't agree that the gist was accurate. That's why I asked.