Teaching maths when you only have GCSE

[xsquared]

Not me, but I have several colleagues whose subject specialism is not maths, but either because of a shortage of qualified maths teachers, or for whatever reason, they are teaching numeracy or maths up to GCSE foundation level.

Don't get me wrong, I am not a snob and there are plenty of effective teachers who are not officially "qualified". On the other hand, I have seen several examples of poor understanding of maths from the teacher, leading to giving wrong information to the class.

What is there to do? Nobody wants to teach maths anymore.

Mind you this was for primary school teaching

Oh god, we are all doomed.

One thing about teachers teaching second subjects (it seems quite common, I had a thread about it a while back) is that maths is taught very differently to other subjects. Whole School INSET days about teaching that talk about Blooms taxonomy or marking or structuring writing or debate or whatever are pretty much useless for maths teachers - I’ve heard some schools have different INSET for maths because of this. I know when I have to teach PSHE I’m shit at it because I’ve no real idea how to facilitate lengthy discussions or get kids to write more than a couple of sentences where other teacher do this effortlessly. I expect it works both ways!

Why are school leaders such bad people managers?

Because they're usually teachers who've been promoted to the school leadership team, rather than professional managers brought in from other industries/disciplines.

Yet, when someone from outside an industry is brought in to manage it, there are the cries of "should be someone from within the industry who knows about it".

You can't win!

Why are school leaders such bad people managers?

And because a lot of teachers are "bullies" as teachers, i.e. dictating at their pupils to do what they say, some not necessarily allowing their pupils to explain their actions, too quick to hand out punishments, etc. After a decade or two doing that, they'll apply the same approach to staff when they start climbing the school leadership ladder. Being stood in front of 30 kids of the same age and same "inferior" position to you, for a few years may make you less likely to treat people as individuals so when you find yourself leading a team of people with different ages, different qualifications, different life experiences, it may be a culture shock when they want to do things differently and won't toe the line so readily, and worse still, you can't easily "punish" them by giving them a detention or holding them back after lesson!

I am a qualified maths teacher without a maths degree, I did maths and further maths at a level and I have done several courses to help with my understanding of how to teach specific concepts, I was lucky to have a fantastic mentor for both my training and NQT year, moved on after my NQT year to an outstanding school closer to home who basically gave me no responsibility in terms of classes (lots of bottom sets and young groups). I have since left the school and they’re now being taught by non-specialists.

I think that not having a maths degree is a double edged sword and I have seen plenty of teachers whose subject knowledge let them down there are some who really want to teach maths well and with the right support don’t need a maths degree!

Maths and science (mostly physics) have been shortage subjects for years. The government just throws money at the problem, recruits unsuitable candidates who cant be bothered or aren't bright enough to do anything else and then after a couple of years they leave and then the process starts again. I don't know what the solution is but Maths and science are the only subjects where you get any help if you want to return to teaching, so there are reasonable efforts being made. I just don't think you will ever solve the fact that a maths graduate can earn 3x as much elsewhere.

I agree not being a specialist isn't always a problem as well, some of the worst teaching Ive seen was a teacher with a PhD in the topic he was trying to teach. He couldn't make it accessible to 12 year olds.

My DC are at a selective grammar school. One of their 'maths teachers' cannot do the level 8/9 work, works from a booklet and refuses to answer questions and often asks DS to help peers etc. I have complained and pointed out bluntly that he cannot do the work - I have been told I am wrong. It is appalling but I have first class degree in maths and totally understand why no one who loves maths wants to be a maths teacher :(

but either because of a shortage of qualified maths teachers, or for whatever reason, they are teaching numeracy or maths up to GCSE foundation level.

In DD1 secondary numeracy isn't taught by maths teachers - in fact most of the humantities aren't taught by teachers in those subject - y8 was first time they got an actual English teacher. It seem to be a deliberate policy - though I suspect it covers up teacher shortages.

It is a concern. They did get a math teacher in yr7 but only half the year due to staffing issues then whizzed through at a really fast pace as they were behind.

We have strong maths backgrounds and use on-line sites and insist the children do some most days - (lack of homework even in maths is another concern) so hopefull our DC will be fine.

There's also a lack of science teachers - though that's not directly impacted on DD1.

Yet, when someone from outside an industry is brought in to manage it, there are the cries of "should be someone from within the industry who knows about it".

I read something a while back about how effective management does need someone who understands the context of what is being done, in any industry. And you only need to look at posts on MN to know that many, many people think they know about teaching when they don’t.

My DH is a manager. He started as a programmer and got promoted, so not unlike in schools. The difference is that he has been on shedloads of courses about how to manage people, and has got massive books on the subject. That doesn’t happen in schools, managing staff seems to be almost incidental to the job of HOD or whatever. My DH says he has regular 1-1s with all his staff. He asked me about mine and was shocked to find out that not only do I not have regular 1-1s with my HOD, but that I never have them. No one ever checks up on how I’m doing as opposed to how my classes are doing. My performance management is done by a random TLR-holder each year and is a tick-box exercise.

recruits unsuitable candidates who cant be bothered or aren't bright enough to do anything else and then after a couple of years they leave and then the process starts again

This may be true of some teachers, but it certainly isn't true of the teachers I know who are leaving the profession or considering leaving (such as me). To be honest it isn't the money either, nor is it the kids. It is (almost) always poor management. I worked in industry before retraining and the nonsense that goes on in schools has to be seen to be believed.

I agree with the PP who thinks there is a mismatch between the profile of someone who enjoys a maths degree and someone who would enjoy teaching maths (at least to GCSE). I suspect that teaching as a profession needs its own degree programmes. Someone who wanted to teach maths and physics in KS3 and KS4 needs specific training for that.

BlueBiros - I agree, schools are rife with SLTs with no management training at all.

Another key thing (IMO) is the pressure put on recently qualified staff. In my previous role it was expected that a recent grad would need a lot of support and advice from senior staff. In teaching, a lot of the time, you are thrown in the deep end. From NQT+1 I was given the same workload and targets as people who had been teaching for 10 years.

BlueBiros - that’s basically an issue of poor management, which goes back to my previous post.

Just out of interest: If there are loads of people teaching outside their specialisms eg Maths, then surly their must be a surplus who aren't teaching within their specialisms?

If so what are these subjects that have an excess of teachers qualified for? Or are I misunderstanding how it works?

walking, largely it is subjects where schools are cutting back due to EBacc or lack of interest from students. So art, music, DT are all areas I've seen teachers moved to teaching outside their specialism.

user, to be fair to slt, they can't really allow lower targets for new teachers because Ofsted go nuts and they can't have lighter timetables because they don't have the money to employ more staff.

Depressing article in the Independent:
“Teachers who are inexperienced, or do not have a degree in maths, are more likely to teach Year 7 to Year 9 pupils than older year groups, especially in schools with more disadvantaged pupils.”

There is a shortage of maths teachers in England as a result of departments losing 40 per cent of teachers during their first six years in the profession, moves to increase participation in maths for 16-18 year olds, and higher private sector wages for maths graduates, the report states.
...

Almost a fifth (19 per cent) of Key Stage 3 maths teachers are inexperienced compared with 7 per cent at Key Stage 5 – and this exposure to inexperienced maths teachers earlier on risks switching pupils off maths at an age when they are forming attitudes to subjects and future choices.”

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/maths-poor-children-teachers-students-school-gcse-a-level-england-a8406506.html

And the obligatory quote at the DfE from the end about how it’s all fine really.

There are loads of PE teachers teaching maths, walking. No shortage of them!

It’s not just the UK that is short of maths Teachers.

Maybe as a primary teacher, but one who did Maths, Further Maths, have As in both (too old for A*) and did Maths during the first year of my degree course, I should consider relocating to secondary....

We need people who can do maths in primary too though cant!

Yeah, not planning an immediate move, as i do think if we can get the foundations right in primary through real understanding, the more able our pupils will be to take on the secondary curriculum....

But as i prepare to mark my Maths and English books for the third time this week, plus a batch of Science and Guided Reading (so >120 books tonight, having done 93 on Monday and 62 last night) I do occasionally wonder whether there might be advantages to secondary!

Workload in primary is scandalous. All that marking cannot possibly be the best use of teachers’ time, and would be better replaced by other activities, including relaxing and switching off from school work.

I won't mention today's display creation either.... especially the fruitless hunt for my Very Superior Staple Gun, which someone has 'borrowed'...asI know it's against the workload guidance but there's no-one else to do it...