Advice from maths teachers re Further Maths GCSE and pupil suitability please.

[P3onyPenny]

I have children in top maths sets in year 9 at a grammar school. One was level 6 in Sats,the other 5. Both have been in top sets at GS since year 7, always getting A+ .One went down to set 2 but the set 2 is allegedly covering the same as set 1 and they are getting very similar marks,set 2 kid actually scoring higher at times in same exams.

They have all been told that next year only set 1 will do further maths at GCSE and there will only be 1 top set with 4 very high groups(2x set 1,2x set 2)vying for places.

Both kids want to do Maths Alevel. Is Further Maths a good bridge to Alevel and does it give an advantage?

I will of course take on board the school's advice if they think either kid isn't up to Further Maths but wouldn't one think most of those kids would be capable of it? I am suspicious limiting it to 30 is down to timetabling,lack of resources/staff etc. I could well be wrong though. Would you query it at school,point out that there should be provision for more to do it or just button my lip and assume that it's really tricky and only a few would be capable of it?

Hello
I teach Maths and Further Maths up to A level at a girls’ grammar school. While not essential to starting A level, we offer FM gcse to our top and middle sets (certainly not compulsory). Top sets do it in class as we finish the specification quite early and middle sets are offered lunch time sessions.
In sixth form those that have done further maths at gcse (or additional maths) are always at an advantage as they have covered several topics in depth. There is some overlap and it is the practice of the advanced methods that give them the edge over those that haven’t done it. On saying that, we have several external students without further maths and they do catch up. I wouldn’t suggest doing further maths gcse if it is going to risk taking time away from the actual gcse and potentially lowering the grade.

Just a detail point for A level. It is no longer modular (except for part of FM A level). The C1-4 do not exist and everyone follows a new specification which is a mix of core, statistics and mechanics. Some schools offer exams at AS after year 12 but the qualification is now a two year linear course (all examined in year 13). We started teaching it this (so the poor kids who were first with the new gcse are also first with this A level).

Hope this helps

Rachel

So bit pants then if ours only offers it to one class out of several in a grammar school.

I would say they are missing an opportunity (depending on staffing availability though). We are not a super selective. We do not enter everyone for the exam (they have to perform well in a mock) as it might be detrimental to their other GCSEs.

2 to 3 top sets out of 8 at an average grammar can do the Further Maths GCSE well.
Add Maths is a different matter altogether though.

I think it's because Add Maths is a Level3 qualification and Further maths is level 2 .So in layman terms further maths is another GCSE whereas Add Maths is more like what in my day was called an AO.

It is explained upthread

Yes additional has a lot more content including statistics and mechanics - which is good preparation for A level but too much pressure to finish in year 11 without impacting other subjects. Further maths is more of an extension of GCSE with added bits. We also found when we did additional that our students found it hard to master the topics to gain the best grades in time (being level 3).

What Rachel said :)
I often found half of the top sets at grammar do very well in Add Maths and get A/B. The other half can’t be asked or not good enough at the time and get E/U. It is a tough course to do well in.

Further Maths only goes down to a C grade, for which you need about 18%. All my top set (state comp) passed when I last taught it.

We teach OCR Add Maths only to our top set and not all actually sit the exam - all are entered but it is decided late on whether or not to sit it based on how they perform in mock and impact on normal GCSE (better to get 9 in GCSE than 7/8 plus add maths).

We do get some parents who want their 2nd set kids to sit it but they are generally not suitable as it is more likely to impact their GCSE performance. There is a lot of content in Add Maths.

Almost all of our Alevel Further Mathematicians will have done Add Maths and those that haven’t are at a disadvantage but it is certainly possible. Most of our standard Maths Alevel students won’t have covered Add Maths. Again it is an advantage to have covered it as it’s there is some overlap and their algebra, graph work, trig etc is generally better. But we generally have about half the year group from year 11 do Alevel Maths so clearly there will a lot who weren’t in the top set.