Tell me what to look for at an independent school open day

[ThalassaThalassa]

DS is in Year 5, and we're just getting started on the round of school visits and open days. We're mainly looking at state secondaries, but due to a change of circumstances we're considering private also, and I'm going to a private open day at the weekend. I went to a state school myself and have barely ever set foot in an independent, so I'm looking for a bit of guidance. My worry is that DS (and I!) will be blown away by the facilities etc and will find it hard to make a proper assessment of whether the school would be right for DS. I want to be able to make the fairest possible comparison between all the schools we visit, so we make a really informed choice. So - any tips on how to get under the 'gloss' of a private school and really get a feel for it - questions to ask, things to look out for etc?

Try to get on a tour led by students and ask them lots of questions. They will tell you the truth.

Observe the older children and ask if you would like your children to turn out like that - also useful to go on a normal school day and watch them all as they leave or to be on a bus with them all at home time and see how they behave and interact.

Watch how the pupils and staff interact - are both parties respectful to each other. Look at the loos and see if they are kept in a decent state.

Sometimes casually chatting to a caretaker or waiting staff can be quite telling too.
Basically try and ignore facilities and exam results and just get a feel for the place. Talking to current pupils and parents is also very useful.

Don't be swayed by glossy facilities and staged activity sessions. Dc school has new pavilions etc but they are not sporty and have never used them. Likewise others may say same re. Drama studios, art rooms, grounds etc. What will actually benefit your child? Ask the student taking you round what they perceive the school's strengths and weaknesses are, has there been any social problems or bullying? Perhaps ask staff about discipline, pastoral care ie. social media use, how they handle sexting, prescription drugs et al. Also go back separately on a normal working day to see how behaviour is usually.

Ask your tour guide how often they have actually used the very impressive looking facilities.
Is your DS interested in anything in particular eg drama, music, a sport? Ask about that. questions like do the Year 7s get to put on a separate play, or do they have to wait until year 10? Can year 7s join the choir, orchestra etc?
Ask what was done to help them settle in. Ask them if they are happy at school, and what they don't enjoy.

Both my children are in independent schools, following state primary.
They are in different schools to each other and each school suits that particular DC absolutely. So, DD's is very less academically driven ( though selective and gets excellent results), with great emphasis on pastoral care, caring ethos etc, whereas DS is at a school that is more challenging, academically, but follows the 'work hard, play hard' school of thought.
In both cases, we just got a gut feeling that they were the right school for them. DD's is actually a bit worn and shabby in parts, whereas DS's is a combination of older and brand new. The pupils in both are absolutely lovely and a credit to the schools, without being straightjacketed and devoid of their own personalities IYKWIM.
In DS's case, we looked at 2 local state comps too, and the one that appealed was the shabby one, because the staff and pupils were so welcoming and warm and keen to get DS on board, whereas the other one, rated outstanding and with all new facilities, made no effort with prospective parents because it's already over-subscribed.
I really believe you'll know instinctively if it's the right school for your DC.

I would second floot's advice-glossy facilities do not necessarily equal happy children.

We moved DD from a vair glossy prep school which suited very sharp elbowed DC and mums to one slightly shabbier to look at but much more emphasis on pastoral care which she needed and she was very happy there.

I also think you should find out where the students go after. Is it a hothouse for Oxbridge or more Oxford Brookes? (both fine but will suit different types)

Thanks everyone. Really helpful advice. It hadn't really occurred to me that schools might not always actually use the facilities they've got, so that's a really good area to explore. I'll definitely be grilling my tour guide . Good ideas for questions about PSHE stuff too. floot I'm glad to hear your DC are getting on so well following a move from state primary to independent secondary. It feels like a really big step! I'm in a grammar school area, so around here most of the movement is the other way (private prep to state grammar).

Too many of these places sell themselves on open day gloss and I endorse the notion that ignoring that is critical. It's too easy to be lured in by big open spaces and fancy buildings and Open Day BS from a well-rehearsed Head.

But there are some facility issues that are worth considering. Are there good science labs for example? Have they got proper curriculum provision and up to date facilities for Computer Science?

Also, bear in mind that there is a lot of diversity in independents - more so that in state, so you might like to pay attention to whether what is on offer actually suits your son. This applies both within the curriculum but if anything is more important with the extra-curricular provision. A school with umpteen rugby pitches and no swimming pool says a lot about priorities and you might not want your son to be subject to such a culture. Is your son musical - if so is there strong support for that? (Ditto drama, art etc.)

Within the academic side there are massive variations depending on whether the school is/not selective, and then how much academic focus there is. You should look at GCSE and A level options and results and uni destinations in detail. If it is a small school you might be surprised at how limited curriculums can be compared to state. There is a lot of variation in support for MFL, Comp Sci, Classics, and some Indies are no better than state in what they offer.

Fit is everything in the indie sector. You can and up paying a lot and get a worse fit that you would have remaining in the state sector. If you want to make it very logical score the school and state choices on things that matter to your son, and score negatively on things that are well supported but no use to your son. We gave high scores to strong curriculum support for MFL and Comp Sci, a wide genuine choice of both team and individual sports, strong support for music. Rugby and horse riding obsessions were scored negatively and a school ruled out absolutely if rugby was compulsory. It's your and your son's choice how to do this. If you son is large, athletic and tone-deaf your priorities might be the diametric opposite of that. At least check to see if what matters to your DS is on the menu.

I say the same to everyone looking at new schools, whether independent, state, selective, etc. From my experience, look at the teachers - they're the most important aspect, not facilities, not buildings, not the head, etc.

We went to several open days. The striking difference was how the teachers reacted to parents and prospective pupils. In some, we could go into a room and basically be ignored by the teachers who'd just continue talking/drinking in a little huddle, apparently oblivious to those of us looking around and making us feel we were intruding when we asked questions etc. In others, the teachers basically accosted us the moment we walked in, immediately engaging with my son, showing him displays, talking to him, giving him worksheets with games on etc., setting him up on computer tasks, etc. In one school, the guy we later discovered was head of maths took him to a table and played a maths related board game with him. These schools made a massive impression on my son and it very easily gave us a short list.

At the end of it all, it was the school that was the oldest, darkest, fewer facilities, etc., that he chose, all because of the way the teachers engaged with us. They gave off really positive vibes. A few years later and it has proved to be the right choice. The kids have really good relationships with most of the teachers and that follows through into pastoral care, lesson time, extra-curricular activities etc. In his first year, he found himself sharing a canoe with the headmaster in the middle of a lake, the head insisting he be called "John" instead of Dr Smith for the day which really broke down barriers. It's meant that DS has had the confidence to talk to the teachers whenever he has experienced issues whether with the work or with classmates etc that has enabled things to be quickly resolved.

It's the teachers that make a school, not the shiny buildings or the expensive lab/theatre equipment. People are most important. My advice would be that if you don't get "friendly", "approachable" vibes from the teachers, walk away!

my favourite question to ask current pupils is "if you could chance one thing about the school, what would it be?"

Change, not chance.

I ask: how many teaching vacancies do you have? Are maths and science taught by teachers with degree level qualifications in the subjects they teach? How much flexibility is there with GCSE options?

Thank you all SO much. Feeling much better prepared now .

Go on the Charity Commissioners website and look at the information about the school's finances. The bar charts make it reasonable easy to spot if there is problem. You don't have to have specialist knowledge. Read the governors statement in the school's annual accounts that you should find on the charity commissioners website too for each school to see if they mention issues about how they came to the view that the school is a going concern. Compare the financial positions of a few schools you know about to get a feel for their levels of reserves or deficits. It is really important. A lot of private schools have financial viability issues. You don't want the school going under in the middle of your kids time there.

Definitely have a student tour. They will answer your questions and you can see how they interact with the younger children (because they will probably be prefects in your child's time there).

I would also look out to see if they support less obvious activities like eco club & the coding club gets to compete in external competitions - not because my DS has an interest but because it shows a breadth of interests are valued not just team sports & music.

Well thanks again everyone. In the end I was pretty blown away, and thought it would be a brilliant fit for DS, but I also felt I did a decent amount of due diligence by asking lots of questions. I think my Year 7 tour guide needed a lie down by the end .

Hi there good luck with your searches. A really important one is GCSEs and are you ALLOWED to do triple science or certain langauages etc if you aren’t in top set/ at a certain level. Some independents you have no choice and you do triple science, other independents you can choose- but YOU and your child - not the school chooses, and the third group will not let your child do say triple science if they aren’t too set/haven’t achieved a certain level. If the latter, when do they make that call? End of year 8? End of year 9? Kids can mature a lot in that time. I can understand the latter approach in a large comprehensive intake but was very surprised- and put off a certain school which is competitive to get into -as caring more about its (excellent) results (and no wonder) than the child

Ask how many of the pupils stay on for 6th form and what entry criteria to 6th form is. i.e. Would you be happy for your child to be told they are not good enough to stay on just because they couldn't get mainly 7s at GCSE.