foundation vs higher maths?

[TheVastMajority]

Im a foster parent, my own kids are very able at maths, so Ive not come across this before - hoping a maths teacher can advise?

FC has been placed in higher math class. SHe struggles but in class is managing. AT home she received regular tutoring, and seems to get most of the concepts, but none of this is translating to success in exams.

Recently she completed a GCSE higher practice paper - she is Y10. Her results were dire - 7 or 8 out of 80 for each paper, so working at around 10%. Now a lot of her classmates also did poorly, but most were at least in the 50% range at this stage - given that they have another year to go, this was good.

Her maths teacher has suggested that she consider moving to foundation, and consolidating her knowledge.

SHe is resisting, saying she needs 80% to pass at foundation and 12% to pass at higher?

This is the bit I really dont understand.

My own feelings are that as she has no desire to continue with a STEM subject or even a business subject at 6th form, she should opt for foundation and get a good grade, albeit a maximum of 5. This will boost her self esteem and be a solid pass, rather than a possible fail.

AM I understanding it correctly? And as a Math teacher, would you think this is a sensible approach?

Maths is tiered because if the paper had to cover all levels from the most basic that a grade 1 candidate could answer to questions that a grade 9 candidate would find challenging, it would be a massive paper that would waste time for everyone sitting it. The grade 1 candidates would be sat twiddling their thumbs for hours as they couldn’t answer most of it and the grade 9 candidates would have to spend ages answering questions they could do in primary school, running out of puff by the time they made it to the questions that would test their knowledge to the limit.

There is a crossover of the papers, 20% of the marks have to come from questions that appear on both papers.
A student who is working towards grade 4 is unlikely to gain marks on the higher paper by answering grade 6 questions mainly because they’ll be too difficult for them, and also because they probably won’t have been taught the content. Anyone working towards a grade 4 should be doing foundation.

Oh, ok. I get that, I think
So would those working at level 5 also be taught level 6/7? and be placed on the corresponding tier nearer the exam time?
Sorry for the stupid questions

At my school they would have been. We tend to teach the borderline-looking students higher content until Y10 exams or even Y11 mocks and then move to foundation if necessary. The way it usually works is that we would end up with a middle group where some would be doing foundation and some higher so that we wouldn’t be restricted on who could switch tiers by set size. Other schools may run it differently but I think our way works quite well.

Oh, I hope that's how my dd school do it, I really do.
I don't think it serves dc well to say you are on this paper and it won't change.
I don't think my dd will suddenly become a level 9,8,7 but I really can't say 100% that she won't just get a whole heap of it in time.
She is like this, has spurts then evens out again.
It was only last year we all thought she would find it hard gaining a level 2. and recently teacher says aiming for a 4/5.
It's good to know that there's some room to move up and down.

my ds x 2 schools, going back now, ordered the paper for the child during Y7, why do that? I think there were 3 tiers then, not sure though.
I'm sure one did high, the other middle.

hello again,

This week I spoke with math teacher and tutor, who both believe FD can do higher. However, I had her do a foundation GCSE paper and she scored only 50% for each, which is just under a level 4 pass grade (like 2 marks - she got 120 and needed 122). SHe is in Y10, so she still has a year to go.

SHould I be concerned that she is barely scraping a foundation pass and they are still expecting her to do higher - at this point in the year??

SHe is upset with the result, I think she wanted to shine in foundation and justify to herself why she is in higher.

This is so complicated, I have to make an informed decision on this stuff!

I'd say unless she is willing to do some work over the Summer holiday to improve her foundation level knowledge, then doing the higher is going to be too much of a struggle. That result suggests she hadn't really got a proper grasp of the foundation level work, and the higher level is a lot more difficult and assumes a good grasp of the basics which are mostly covered in foundation.

If she wants to do higher and is willing to spend some time over Summer, I'd suggest you buy her the CGP foundation level GCSE workbook which has page after page of foundation level questions which she can work through to find her weaknesses and improve upon them. If she starts back in September with improved basic skills and understanding, she'll be in a far better place to deal with the more demanding higher level work.

thank you pacer. Im getting the same feeling, so we are going to work on foundation papers from here on, and see how we can improve her basic understanding. She has missed a lot of school, is on her third senior school, so its no wonder really that her math is not quite there.

(and I just finished marking her 3rd foundation paper. she got 40, 40, 28. SO thats 108 which is between a 3 and a 4 on grade boundaries.

How is she performing on the questions on the second half of the paper? About the last 20% of the marks on the paper are the grade 4-5 questions which will be the first 20% of the marks on the higher paper. If she is scoring poorly on those (and that’s likely, given her poor performance on higher), then she needs to stick with foundation. If she is making loads of mistakes on the easier questions but picking up quite a few marks nearer the end of the paper on the harder questions, then she has a chance on higher. Unusual, but it can happen.

But my gut instinct is that she needs to stop wasting time on higher if she’s getting a 3 on foundation. She’s just not solid enough at maths in general (missing school etc) to make the rapid progress needed on the harder content.

Certainly can't improve on the great advice here but just to say OP, it's lovely to see how much you obviously care for your foster daughter.

I'm assuming she's had a tough start in life and it's really nice to think she seems to have something go right for her in finding you!!

Thank you HPFA. SHe is one of mine now, so she gets treated the same as my own.

Noblegiraffe Thank you. Looking at the paper, some of the presumably level 1 stuff she is not able to do, but then will get full marks for some of the tougher questions in the middle and the back. This is one of the issues her math teacher has SHe has some cracking understanding of some very tough concepts, but then draws a blank on some easy stuff. For example, she totally gets trig. not phased by it at all. BUt one of the questions she failed to answer today was:

"here are four digits: 5, 6, 1, 9. Write down the smallest two-digit number that can be made with two of the digits. "

I can see that word questions leave her quite stumped. If there is a formula or a basic calculation, she gets it. When words are involved, she panics. I wonder if there is an issue with receptive language - certainly she reports that she could not speak as as a child and had extensive SALT intervention in infants. WOuld this be a thing?

SO now Im wondering if it would be better to a) move her to the slower moving higher set (there are three higher classes - she is in the middle lane) or b) move her to foundation or c) really go through the fundamentals with her over the summer and see how she fares in a foundation paper in September.

SHe has a history of significant trauma, has had severe PTSD since she arrived, and has missed a lot of school - firstly due to her circumstances prior to coming into care, and then due to carious legal bits and bobs and extensive therapy. SHe is now in a better head space, and so I am leaning towards a combination of B and C.

(noble, if you could point me to any resources to help develop her reasoning skills in language questions, Id be grateful).

I would do c) and then in September decide on a) or b). (Or do 'a' immediately as she clearly shouldn't be in the mid higher stream, then do c then possibly b).

I do think you need to do c) regardless. Think what an hour a day for 5 days a week for 5 weeks could achieve. I have done it with one or other of my children for a number of years and it can make a big difference.

Some of it will be unpicking the language and practice can help a lot with that. So for example, my DD2 used to get tied in knots by questions that said 'from these 5 cards make a 3 digit number divisible by 5' because she couldn't see the right answer. Now she knows that 'find a' means there are lots of solutions.
Similarly as 'estimate from the graph' really means 'read from the graph' (the answer is only an estimate as the graph is extrapolating from real life information).

If you were to get a KS2 maths book you could really check the fundamentals. e.g. understanding of place value, percentages, fractions, before moving on to other things.

The language on the Foundation paper tends to be more straightforward than the higher paper. Trig is on both papers. Unfortunately, the new GCSE has more problem solving than previously, so what would previously have been a straightforward Pythagoras question now is ‘John wants to make a right-angled triangular picture frame out of 3 pieces of wood, how much wood would he need if it must fit into a 3 by 4 alcove’ (or something similarly contrived). All students struggle with these and need practice in unpacking what’s needed to be done.

There are some maths command words here: docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/1b68c0_b801b4cfa2c54547b21a2d82f54d94bc.pptx?dn=Maths%20Command%20Words%20mat.pptx
The Complete Maths problem solving booklet has a wide range of problems completemaths.com/teaching-tools/free-resources

The problem solving strategies lesson here might give you some ideas how to help her break questions down (plus loads of resources)
www.piximaths.co.uk/problem-solving

Agree that regular practice over the summer would be a good idea, try to identify her weaknesses then focus on addressing those before September.

thank you Teen and Noble. I will look at these resources. Might need to brush up on my own math skills too...!

Does your school use any online Maths system like SAM Learning. For part of her revision my dd tests herself on the online questions and it helps her figure out what area she is weak in. It's quite good as it shows you what % of the different topics you have worked through & and I think uses a traffic light system to show how you are doing on each topic. It might be useful to work through something like this each day.
Plus working through past papers (I know there aren't many) and a revision book will get her used to the style of questions.

Given her background, I would think carefully, about how it would impact on her confidence if you made her move down now. If she is happy being in the higher set, I would be tempted to leave her until Y11 mocks and then maybe move down to foundation. This would give her 6 months to work and improve.