Am absolutely livid.......subject choice denied

[HopeNotFear]

DD going into 3rd year, thinking about a career in architecture so one of her choices for starting 3rd year was Graphics. She’s just been told this morning by her year head that the class is over subscribed and as she has also chosen Art, and they are similar she cannot do Graphics, she needs to choose History or Business Studies.

I am livid, DP is waiting for a call back from the year head to discuss but no way are we accepting this.

Bit of background, she works hard & is doing really well in all subjects, she received awards last year in Design Engineering Technology & represented school in a DET competition. She has spoken to her DET teacher and he had no idea she didn’t make the cut.

I realise if the school don’t have the places for all, some students will miss out but surely it should be based on effort / performance and not what other subject choices they have made. Had we known this, she would have picked something else other than art.

Anyone had experience of similar and how did you deal with it, what was the outcome?

Thanks.

When I was at high school I wanted to do drama but the school said I couldn’t.

My dad had died the term before and I hadn’t been back to school long so this really knocked my confidence. My mum complained and it turned out it was because they wanted me to do a language instead as I would get a good grade in a modular subject thus looking better for the school.

Could it be something similar?

Cross-post, sorry. But still good to do some research if her heart is set on architecture. And she definitely should do art

I'm glad she has been given the place. DS1 (now 21) had this happen when 3 of his 4 chosen option where removed at the last minute due to 'lack of interest', they were subjects he really wanted to do and it changed his future plans. It also affected the last years of secondary school to a poor experience as he had little interest in his other options.

I’ve taught Art and Dt for years ( like millions of years!).

Art is what they want for architecture not Graphics.

My son is at a super selective that tends to "breed" many architects - the school does not even offer graphics!

I definitely agree art, I did an art based degree and I think keep your choices as broad as possible at this stage. Art can include graphics, sculpture, mixed media photography etc and graphics is graphics alone. I think picking art and graphics are narrowing her future options down too soon.

You definitely need art for architecture not graphics, you might be Okay with graphics but most, particularly the better unis, want art. The only ones of my friends who got into architecture all did art.

I had exactly the same issue with media studies when I was at school, turns out it was not at all relevant for an actual job in media and I ended up changing my mind lots of times about what I wanted to do after that. You need to think carefully about what A levels you take but you absolutely do not need to think carefully about GCSE's. Colleges will not discriminate on letting students in based on their GCSE choices. Please don't sweat it. But do think carefully about A levels if she still wants to do architecture then

Do you honestly think that a child who may achieve a lower grade than your dd should be booted out of the class in her favour? That's awful. What if they enjoy it and that's the bottom line.

What is Modern Studies?

@gryffen
Just wanted to pick up your misinformation about History. Your assertion that
^^History won't do anything for her as it's ww2, Mary qos and wars of independence in standard year along with a few others
Is completely wrong.
At National level pupils must complete a Scottish unit, a British unit and a European and world unit. You cannot do two Scottish topics!

History won't do anything for her......

History teaches valuable skills, quite apart from the course content.

Isn't the reality that sometimes subjects are over-subscribed and not everyone gets exactly what they want? And it can't be that they choose students based on 'merit' or ability, because that would mean some students who are lacking in ability in lots of areas would not get any of their choices. So, why should your DD be given preference over someone else? Yes, they should make clear how allocations are made when there is over subscription, even if this is randomly drawing out of a hat, which might be the fairest way, but actually, they probably do it to ensure a balanced curriculum - so someone doing art, isn't given graphics too. As everyone has said, architecture is a competitive course to get onto at uni - it would be far better to have a good angle of academic subjects than to have graphics as an addition to art. Check again what the uni requirements are - really important to realise the high standard required and importance of maths and having a great academic profile. Graphics GCSE is neither here nor there for this.

Anyway, you got what you wanted in the end.....often the case that if you raise a query that you do - so no need to be livid really.

Op, you do sound a bit misinformed about GCSEs.
Remember, the important thing about GCSEs is to get a good mix of academic subjects. Unis won't be overly interested in individual GCSE subjects but looking for high grades ina. Range of academic subjects - History for example is a highly regarded subject.....so see it as adding useful skills and being highly regarded, rather than focusing on what is the topic content. She will need to get good grades at GCSE and then do 3 A Levels including art and 2 academic subjects.
So to do architecture, she will need to be good at art, but she will also need to be clever and to have qualifications to show that - GCSE graphics won't be relevant in illustrating that. That's not to say she shouldn't do the Graphics if she loves it, as long as she really does have a great range of other subjects which are academic, but you need to recognise it as a choice for simply enjoyment, not furthering a career/uni path.

We don't know if architecture will be realistic for her or if she is academic enough for it. Generally though you need to get a bit better informed about what does and doesn't matter regarding both GCSE choices and also A Level choices,mbecaus eof course GCSE choices affect what can be done later at A Level.

My school (Scotland) doesn't offer loads of subjects as it is tiny. I have 2 recent pupils studying Architecture. Neither have Graphics. Also, she could crash a Higher in S6 for anything missing. No one really cares about N5s as long as they have a good range and, for harder subjects, all As.

That is not to say she should not have her choices. But, if only doing 6/7 N5 subjects with a view to 5 Highers, then best to have Art or Graphics, not both.

What's modern studies? Architecture is massively oversubscribed. Dd2 is at a selective independent school and they say Art, and two academic facilitating subjects at a level - her friend is doing history art biology

‘No way are we accepting this.’

Sorry posted too soon- will you go unand teach it yourself then? Or change schools?

Why on earth do you think they should choose students on merit for subject choices? You think a space should be reserved for your DD because she scores highly in the subject? She doesn’t even need graphics, who told you she need it for Architecture? Let’s apply this logic across the board, What do you think the lower/average students should choose then, perhaps the scraps left behind by the top students?

I’m happy your DD is a high achiever but you want your DD to choose as many subjects as possible to maximise her A’s obviously. Do you think an average student who perhaps doesn’t do Art but really wants to do graphics should be denied a place because they are unlikely to get an A* . How selfish.

Hi @MissMilo

I have standard and higher history and our course study (1998 for SGH and 2000 for HH) was as follows.

Ww2 - covers Europe.
Rise of Nazi party
Mary queen of scots
Wars of Independence

We weren't allowed to redo the above in higher so we chose Nuremberg trials and the Holocaust as a class project which was then incorporated into Scottish curriculum.

My mum was also a teacher for 40yrs at same school so I'm aware of our local education guidelines- each area can be different so I can only speak for mine etc.

History is an important subject but the above unless doing Renaissance art, historical art etc isn't necessary for certain art courses.

As for kids being chosen over others- I meant some kids chose with friends and cause mayhem - a cull is term used after guidance talks to the kids about careers etc and also looks at behaviour in class etc.

OP- glad she's sorted.

Just away to go tutor some kids on history at nursery on Monday so need to read up on Glasgow history.

OP is in Scotland so talking about Nat 5s, not GCSEs.

For those that asked, Modern Studies is sort of like Politics: covers modern affairs like voting systems, inequalities, gender issues, international politics (not sure exactly what is covered at Nat 5 but ds has just crashed a Modern Studies Higher in S6 and covered those sorts of areas he particularly enjoyed American politics and talking about Trump - it's a good foundation for the Politics and International Relations degree he is starting at Aberdeen in September )

It sounds like the OP's dd is now sorted but I would have added to others who have said that she could crash it in S5 or S6 and to keep her options open at the moment. In fact, one of S6 ds' friends crashed not just a Higher in Graphic Comms but and Advanced Higher in Graphic Comms but he is very clever and talented

Another friend's dd has been fortunate enough to be accepted into Glasgow Art School (she'd been expecting to have to take a year out to work on her portfolio) but has to get a B in her Graphic Comms Higher, which she has crashed in S6 (iirc - don't think it was an Advanced Higher).

I tell a lie: although it was "just" a Higher in Graphic Comms her dd was doing, she needs an A for her conditional offer to GSA.

So her subjects are:
English,
Maths,
Italian,
Physics,
Chemistry,
Modern Studies
Art
Graphics

That selection of subjects is not likely to lead to a career as an architect - too many vocational subjects, not enough academic rigour. I would advise her to drop Modern Studies and add two more challenging subjects. Architecture courses are all massively oversubscribed. You get in by being head and shoulders above the herd with evidence of going above and beyond the minimum throughout your schooling.

What is Modern Studies please?

Also wondering what Modern Studies is.