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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

Year 2 maths learning - for a Year 7 student ! ?

50 replies

Goldensmart · 09/05/2018 14:17

Greetings all.....

Very miffed here, OK my girl is bright and able in her maths not a high flyer, has been in middle set for Yr 7. maths for the last 8 months.

Parents evening we asked and all was well, no concerns. Then randomly and abruptly our girl very recently is moved out of this set to the bottom, we heard about this through our girl over teatime. What is being taught in that set is in alignment with very basic adding up maths etc, Year 3/4 level !

Also, when our girl completes her work, she is denied doing additional study and told to listen and watch the others.

Really ! ?

Apart from her confidence being whacked, - our girl was also told there was not enough room for her in the class and then we find out new students had just joined and were placed in that middle group.....

I cant see how being in a bottom set at such like that is doing her any good whatsoever - we are not getting anyway where with the school either... they are very guarded in the decision making and revealing her assessment results.

Light on this would be lovely .....its just so depressing .......

OP posts:

noblegiraffe · 11/05/2018 07:36

Don’t do what Cal suggests, that’s entirely stupid.

As far as I can see, your only genuine complaint so far is that when she finishes her work, she isn’t being given more work to do.

Anything else you merely have queries about.

Schools are allowed to change children’s sets based on their assessments of the child’s capabilities. Demanding that they move her back just because you want her moved back, not because it was clear that they had made a mistake (and so far it’s not), would just make you look really bad.

cloudtree · 11/05/2018 07:46

I think the issue might be your perception of what year 3/4 maths is.

I have a DS in Year 8 and a DS in Year 6. Both are very good at maths DS1 is often still plotting graphs and going back to basics sometimes is important to embed the techniques that they are about to use for a more complex topic.

DS2 is actually naturally good at maths but is in the lower group. He could be in the top group but for timetabling reasons he has to be in the lower group. Initially I was stroppy about it but actually its done him some favours since being constantly at the very top of the lower group has been a good confidence boost. Presumably this is also the case with your DD and she might actually learn more that way since it will give her the confidence which is all important with maths.

JustRichmal · 11/05/2018 07:50

Does she have an end of year test coming up, or is it teacher assessment only?
If she does, you could get her a KS3 revision book from Letts or CGP and get her to the point where they cannot say she is in the bottom set. I would teach her at home anyway, because having a maths GCSE will be beneficial and at the moment, it does not sound like she is heading for a pass,
Did they actually use the words "demanding and unsatisfied"?

rainingcatsanddog · 11/05/2018 08:16

I've had a flick through my y7 son's science books and there's quite a few graphs. I wonder if they are revising this so that it helps in science class too.

Original poster

Goldensmart · 11/05/2018 09:35

Indeed those words were used Just Richmal, got it in black and white and it all feels so hostile and defensive. Like a huge barrier is there in place to keep parents out, we are the experts, know best, keep out kinda of thing.

I've asked for answers and they have resisted so far, so I don't have a clear indication of what is being taught in class or even if her weak areas are being worked on etc. I can look at her work book but that is all I have to go on. I understand they are the experts, but also its a large state school with 30 in the class and things can get overlooked.

My concern is this looks like she is heading for a low GCSE pass and that is not acceptable - I don't want her stuck in a cycle of resits following her on into further education. I have seen my others go through that and it does their confidence no go whatsoever.

OP posts:

rainingcatsanddog · 11/05/2018 10:36

If she stays in the bottom set she could end up with a low GCSE grade but in my kids school, children move up and down all the time. If you help sort out her gaps then she could move up in future?

You can't keep on resitting GCSE maths indefinitely any more but without it, her post GCSE choices will be limited so it's good that you are on this now.

sonnyboo · 11/05/2018 12:39

My concern is this looks like she is heading for a low GCSE pass

Why are you assuming that all kids in the bottom sets get low grades at GCSE?

The whole point of streaming them is so that the teaching can be tailored to different ability levels and to get the best possible results for every pupil.

BackInTime · 11/05/2018 15:26

If she stays in the bottom set she could end up with a low GCSE grade but in my kids school, children move up and down all the time. If you help sort out her gaps then she could move up in future?

This is true to a certain extent but the reality is that it becomes more and more difficult to move up a set if you are not being taught the topics at the same level as the set above. In the bottom sets the focus is mostly on filling gaps and going over stuff while in the higher sets they are moving forward and learning new things. The longer this goes on the harder it is to move up without extra help from a tutor.

Taxiparent · 11/05/2018 16:46

My concern is that she is heading for a low grade GCSE
Are the Maths papers tiered in Scotland? If so, your daughter should still be able to reach the highest grade that she is capable of, regardless of which group she is in.

CalF123 · 11/05/2018 16:52

@noblegiraffe

It's not stupid at all. My DS was placed in an English class that was reading effectively reception level books despite him reading adult books as home.

I went into the office at 8am on the Monday morning and refused to leave without seeing the head. I then told him I'd be reporting the school to the LA and Ousted unless DS was given education appropriate to his ability. He was moved class by lunchtime.

Original poster

Goldensmart · 11/05/2018 16:55

BackInTime...... I agree, its that or private home education..... Shame as she is doing 3 hours a week in class and then that would mean additional outside 1:1 work that we would have to pay for.

One shall try to remain positive, however, the comments here are helpful, thank you.

OP posts:

sonnyboo · 11/05/2018 16:59

Why don't you trust the maths teacher's assessment of your dd? Some kids genuinely benefit from being in the lower set.

noblegiraffe · 11/05/2018 17:02

Thing is, Cal, Ofsted wouldn’t give a toss about your complaint and would have bounce you back to the school, so your threat to report the school actually just made you look silly. The school may well have moved your child without you making such a huge song and dance about it. Blowing your top about stuff unnecessarily just antagonises people.

noblegiraffe · 11/05/2018 17:09

My concern is this looks like she is heading for a low GCSE pass and that is not acceptable

Moving a child who is struggling with maths up a set doesn’t always mean that they will do better, it may mean that they can’t access the work and crash out completely.

It sounds like the school are being unhelpful in providing details of your DD’s assessments. What have her reports said about her current attainment? If she’s struggling and has gaps in her knowledge then moving her back up won’t help, and what is needed to stop her heading for a low GCSE grade is extra support.

Have you considered getting her to sit a set of SATs papers to see how she performs on them? www.gov.uk/government/publications/key-stage-2-tests-2017-mathematics-test-materials

CalF123 · 11/05/2018 18:54

@nobelegiraffe

Quite the contrary- OFSTED would be very interested in children not being challenged and given the right level of education for their ability.

noblegiraffe · 11/05/2018 19:07

Cal Ofsted expect you to follow the school complaints procedure. You didn’t, so they’d point you straight back to the school.

Original poster

Goldensmart · 11/05/2018 19:18

nobelgiraffe...... this is what I am thinking get her independently assessed. I really don't know where she is now with her maths.....

OP posts:

Feenie · 11/05/2018 19:44

The title is incorrect - the thread isn't about Y2 Maths. Now that would have BU.

JustRichmal · 11/05/2018 23:03

If the school is resorting to making derogatory remarks about you as parents, I would say relations have broken down. "Demanding parents" is a derogatory personal judgement rather than a comment on the situation..
It could be that your dd was placed in the wrong group for the last 8 months. In which case, they should have raise concerns at parent's evening. At least they should now answer your questions of precisely what these gaps are and why your dd is now being given work that she finds so easy.
We have been through the same with dd at primary, and one of the concerns is causing waves where dd spent her school day. I think all you can do is try to be diplomatic and keep up your dd's study at home. The KS3 revision guides cover the syllabus comprehensively. Khan Academy is also good if your dd prefers working on a computer. Does she have end of year exams she can work to?

Original poster

Goldensmart · 12/05/2018 06:57

Thanks JustRichmal.......We are worried now, about where dd is now on her other core subjects and how to approach that with the school. Would be best to have dd in alignment with a comfortable C or above GCSE pass....

I've lost faith and confidence in this school in terms of their understanding of dd and what's best for her. DD just seems to appear as a number that needs to be jigged and rejigged to suit their needs and keep their records looking nice and shiny.

OP posts:

noblegiraffe · 12/05/2018 09:36

Out of interest, why did you remove her from primary school and homeschool?

Original poster

Goldensmart · 12/05/2018 10:14

A violent child in the class noblegiraffe, the timing was right and we were up for it.. best thing I could of done for my DD at that time.

OP posts:

noblegiraffe · 12/05/2018 11:40

I’m sorry that you felt the primary school could keep your DD safe, that does sound bad. Has it dented your trust in schools in general do you think? It’s just that your DD moved down a set and they say she has gaps in her knowledge and you are immediately thinking of failed GCSEs and now worrying about her other subjects and thinking the school doesn’t want what’s best for her.

You might be right, it could be a crap school in general (and their interactions with you sound unprofessional) but secondary schools are also very big and an issue with a maths teacher doesn’t automatically mean that the English and science departments are run in the same way.

And generally, schools don’t want kids to fail their GCSEs.

It’s really hard to say whether the school is doing what’s best for your DD by moving her down a set (which they seem to think they are, and it’s possible that it’s the right course of action) without any objective assessment data on her. Did she sit KS1 SATs?

Original poster

Goldensmart · 13/05/2018 00:51

Hi nobelgiraffe, understand what you are saying...... DD is not that bad to fail and not that bright to get A* results..... however..... new grades there is the worry that the general pass wont be achieved... thus resit looming......?

OP posts:

Original poster

Goldensmart · 13/05/2018 08:54

hmmm, agreed nobelgiraffe.

It all feels neutral at the moment and to just carry on with the school.. ? however, we have now decided to get a private maths tutor in at home.....the school have made it quite clear they know best and shall stand by their decision. Waiting to hear back on assessment results and other answers to our questions, which are all reasonable, basic and healthy.... though I feel we wont get them unless we really insist.... the head told us in black and white to back off....!

I also understand the GCSE's are getting harder too, and next year DD will be choosing her subjects.

OP posts:

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