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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

Urgent Appeal advice please

15 replies

Smelliottsmum · 04/05/2018 12:38

Hi all any help/advice greatly appreciated. I just don’t know what to do 🙈

The original published appeals date for the school we’re appealing has now been put back almost three weeks. As it is now taking place within the school holidays it means I am unable to attend due to us being on holiday. It’s a once in a lifetime holiday we have planned for the last 10 years and has been booked for 2 years. No way I can change any aspect of it without significant financial loss.
Therefore I am stuck between a rock and a hard place.
The appeals team have basically told me if we defer the date (apparently would then be held in August) my son would have a much lower chance of being successful in appeal due to some children getting in on appeal in June.
However I also face a lower chance by not actually being there and relying on the evidence I have submitted.
I can’t think of anyone who I can send in my place and the appeals team have said they don’t recommend using a solicitor. However I have heard of people hiring a solicitor and being successful 🤔
I just don’t know what to do for the best.
My son has gone to school in tears this morning and I’m not sure how much more he can take 😞
Really appreciate any advice, thanks in advance.

OP posts:

TeenTimesTwo · 04/05/2018 12:46

You need to be preparing your son for his allocated school and downplaying any chance of getting in on appeal. Apart from 'we will see if we can get the other school to take you, but if they don't school B will be great too' I don't see why your DS needs to be aware of appeal details.
Can you send a family friend or appear by facetime?

Original poster

Smelliottsmum · 04/05/2018 12:52

Hi, thanks for your reply...yes have been doing all that... taking him to the town where the other school is and reiterating all the positives and children who go there and love it etc etc.
I asked about FaceTime but they said it had never been done before and probably wouldn’t be allowed 😏

OP posts:

CrumpledDuvet · 04/05/2018 14:37

No advice unfortunately, but just sympathy from here. What a horrible situation. As if it’s not all stressful enough

prh47bridge · 04/05/2018 16:15

My views:

There is nothing in the Admission Appeals Code that says you can't attend via FaceTime or similar. I can't see any reason why it wouldn't be allowed as far as the Code is concerned. But I'm not aware of anyone trying it, still less any LGO/EFA decisions on the subject.

I would not recommend sending a solicitor.

If you cannot attend and it is impractical to offer an alternative date the hearing can be decided purely on the written submissions. I agree that this may reduce your chances of success.

However, the thing that sticks out for me is that they are saying that, if you can't manage a date in June, you will have to wait until August. I would challenge that and ask them to justify why they can't get the same appeal panel in to hear your case a week or two after the other hearings (in which case they should delay making any decisions until they've heard your case) or, even better, rearrange all the hearings. This is a problem they have created by moving the hearing from the original date to one that doesn't work for you. They should, in my view, be more accommodating.

TeenTimesTwo · 04/05/2018 16:36

Are you saying they are holding appeals in the upcoming half term?
That seems very antisocial for all families?

Original poster

Smelliottsmum · 04/05/2018 17:33

Hi thanks for the reply...
yes they are holding them within our school holiday 7th&8th June. Originally it was meant to be the W/C 21st May... which would have been ok.
They seem to be putting the onus on me. I get the feeling they don’t want to deal with any deferrals as obviously this will be an inconvenience to them.
I will get back to them on Monday and stamp my feet a little. Is there anyone higher up I can speak to do you think? Like you say they are the ones who have changed it all ☹️

OP posts:

admission · 04/05/2018 18:23

I would question the validity of the appeal dates. Whilst the admission appeal guidance does not specifically say do not hold appeals on holiday days, what it says is the admission authorities must take all reasonable steps to ensure the venue is appropriate, accessible to appellants (para 2.14). Well I am not sure a venue which is during the holiday period of the school in question is very accessible or reasonable.
The same reasoning applies to a later appeal in August!
So say that you will complain to the Ombudsman about the date being in their school holiday as it is unreasonable not to expect people to be away at this time. Then see what they do.

Original poster

Smelliottsmum · 04/05/2018 18:31

Hi admission... thank you so much for the advice. I shall do that 😊

OP posts:

GottaFindTchange · 04/05/2018 19:35

If you can't take the hit on the holiday, then definitely a solicitor. There are many who specialise in school appeals. I doubt their charges would be more than your holiday.
Appeals panel might not recommend them- because they know their stuff and the panel don't want to face them.

eddiemairswife · 04/05/2018 22:19

I don't think that appeals are moved without good reason. If a panel member has to withdraw, the admission authority may have found it difficult to find a replacement for the original date. After all panel members are volunteers and can't be compelled to attend at any time. Many LAs will be holding appeals concurrently at this time of year, which may make it even harder to replace someone for specific dates.

prh47bridge · 04/05/2018 22:54

Appeals panel might not recommend them- because they know their stuff and the panel don't want to face them

No, that is not the reason appeal panels and experts don't recommend them. Panels are not in the business of trying to reject every single appeal. Panels don't care whether they face solicitors, parents or anyone else. Those of us who come on here do so in order to help parents.

The reason we don't recommend solicitors is that, in most cases, they don't know their stuff when it comes to admission appeals, even the ones who claim to specialise in this area. I have come across far too many parents who have lost very winnable appeals after bad advice from solicitors. And most appeal panelists have faced solicitors trying to win on obscure points of law that simply aren't relevant in admissions appeals.

GottaFindTchange · 05/05/2018 06:57

Well, that's me told. And my friend who is primary chair of governors and barrister specialising in secondary school appeals with an excellent success rate. And my sister who is chair of governors of a grammar.

If the appellant cannot attend -and knows no one who can attend in her place..... well, someone she could hire, a professional who specialises in school appeals, who could follow her instructions, who would not be in the least intimidated by the situation, sounds to me like a solid bet as a substitute.

prh47bridge · 05/05/2018 08:00

I am not saying that there aren't any solicitors who can help with admission appeals. But appeals are not a court of law and, in my experience, solicitors damage cases far more often than they help. Similarly, some of those who claim online that they are experts and offer to help with appeals are anything but. I've never come across a barrister at an appeal. I'm sure that there are some lawyers and experts who are good with admission appeals. But so many of those claiming they can help don't know their stuff that using them is too big a risk in my view.

Personally, if it were me, I would get the panel to decide on the written submissions rather than get someone else involved. But it is impossible to tell which would be the best approach. The OP is being put in a very difficult situation.

It shouldn't be necessary to worry about this. The LA should sort out the dates so that the OP's appeal is heard on a date when she can be present and won't be disadvantaged. Their current stance is unacceptable.

Original poster

Smelliottsmum · 05/05/2018 12:14

Thanks so much for all the replies and advice.
I have already submitted a very in depth appeal letter and the appeals department have suggested I send in a further written statement explaining why I cannot attend in person. I was also going to include a copy of our primary school holiday list confirming that this is indeed our school holiday time and also proof that we booked and paid for our holiday almost 2 years ago. Do you think this would help?

OP posts:

prh47bridge · 05/05/2018 15:05

I don't think a copy of the holiday list will be necessary. The appeal panel should be aware of the school holidays. But you should not accept this date at all, or their proposed alternative. As Admission says, tell them that, unless they come up with an acceptable date that does not leave you disadvantaged, you will refer the matter to the Local Government Ombudsman.

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