Moving from private to state at 6th form - any advice?

[PrivateToState]

Ds is currently in year 10 at a selective all-boys independent school. He enjoys it generally, although is finding the GCSE pressure a bit of a struggle at times, and has started to voice doubts about whether he really wants to stay on for 6th form. He has talked about wanting a 'change of scene' and a bit more independence. I don't know really whether this is the case or whether it's just GCSE blues.

He has a good group of friends at school, but does also have several other friends (and a girlfriend) at other schools, mostly state, and he makes friends easily so I'm not worried on that score. What concerns me most is that whilst he is bright and able, he tends to be pretty disorganised and a bit lazy. His current school are good at supporting him and keeping him on track. I definitely worry that his natural inclination to do the bare minimum might trip him up in an environment where perhaps fewer tabs are kept on him.

He is predicted mostly 7s and 8s in GCSEs although he will have to knuckle down to get them. The state options around us are good/outstanding although none of them have A-level pass rates even close to his current school's results.

I'd really appreciate any advice or experience from people who have moved slightly unmotivated dcs at 6th form, what made you decide, how did it turn out etc? I've told him that we don't need to make any decisions either way until later in the year but I'd like to canvass opinions from MN now for my own benefit!

I can't offer experience, as my eldest is in year 11. But we did look at all local sixth form options - state and private - and there are a few practical issues to be aware of. First and foremost, it came as a surprise that all sixth forms operate their own application timetables. Application deadlines at the schools we looked at ranged from end of September to end of February and open days were similarly spread over a period of months. So if you have your eye on any specific options, don't hang about waiting for "open day season" because there isn't one!

Beyond that, it's the old thing of the right school/college for the child, rather than whether private/state is best. And you may find that some of the things you think you know are turned on their head. For example, we discovered that the best option in terms of small class sizes and individual attention was DD1's current state comprehensive. Lots of people leave in year 11, leaving those who want a very traditional academic curriculum (because they don't offer lots of Btecs etc) which will suit DD1 down to the ground. In contrast, the very prestigious private sixth form we looked at had enormous class sizes and didn't seem remotely interested in DD1 as an individual. So look around at all options with an open mind and see what's out there.

My DS moved from an independent school to state for the Sixth Form - we have never regretted it and he is very happy. He wanted a change and was bored with his school, but I was unsure for similar reasons to those you mention. I'm not convinced there are less tabs kept on their academic work though. He gets far more homework than his friends at his old school and his teachers seem really on the ball with how well he is doing. There isn't the same level of spoon feeding, but that seems to have been a good thing as it has helped him to be more motivated!

Thank you both, good advice. I don't want to give the impression that I think the state provision would be inferior in terms of teachers' commitment etc, just that I am aware of how well-resourced ds's current school is and therefore how much time they have, relative to colleagues in the state sector, to spend on supporting students who are struggling in some way.

I am just a bit nervous about it I guess, not because I think state is 'bad' (ds went to a state primary after all and did very well there) but because we won't know if it's the right move for ds until we do it. And it's such an important time.

The thing is, OFSTED is so obsessed with data that a good/outstanding state school has every incentive to monitor students performance within an inch of their lives. Obviously you'd need to ask some very pertinent questions about how an individual school keeps tabs on progress. Some will be better than others. But certainly our main two local state school options offer such things as regular one-to-one tutorials during sixth form, to help keep students on track and tackle any individual issues. And around here the classes are much smaller than at GCSE level.

I think the gap in resourcing is more likely to be noticeable in terms of the range of extra-curricular activities, textbooks etc. But if you are saving ££'s in fees, you will certainly be in a position to fill those gaps.

You're right though that it's a bit of a leap into the unknown. And despite having looked at all the options, I have to confess that I'm quite relieved that DD1's current school is her favourite sixth form, so I don't have to contemplate making that leap!

What motivates him? Does he know what he might wish to choose for A level and do afterwards? That might inform school choice.

OP. Do be aware that many state schools are under great financial pressure and so may not be able to offer as wide a range of A levels as your independent school. Opportunities to study subjects such as Ancient Languages, Further Maths and some art courses can be limited.

I would go and visit the ones you are considering, and both you and your son meet the teachers of the subjects he is interested in. With my DD even a brief evening visit was enough to rule out one sixth form.
Then you can apply to multiple Sixth forms and even hold on to multiple offers. Check with his present school when he has to say he won't be staying to avoid fees.
My DD only decided between two Sixth forms after Induction days, and she could have held onto both until registration at the end of August.
If you have any Sixth Form colleges I would definitely recommend looking at them too.

round here its INCREDIBLY common
hundreds and hundreds of kids move from private into the state sector for 6th form
Barton and Symonds get amazing results
and are a fab halfway house between school and uni
whats not to like

PS
Symonds has around 800 kids taking maths and a couple of hundred taking further
physics has a couple of hundred - it has its own building
even private schools struggl to compete with that

He definitely won't be taking maths or physics, and I have no idea where Barton or Symonds are, but I take your point about resources TalkinPeece . He is very much more humanities-focused; English, Spanish, History etc

I will certainly double check all the application dates etc, and go with ds to the open days/evenings. He has mentioned a couple of places and I also have some ideas. I'm not going to put any pressure on him either way though, he may well change his mind again. I like the idea of doing the applications anyway and with a bit of luck perhaps holding a couple of places without having to make a firm decision until later.

Which History? - state 6th forms as big as Symonds and Barton offer two
and more languages than many schools can offer www.psc.ac.uk/courses/

Joking apart, despite the cuts biting in the state sector, economies of scale are not to be sniffed at

OP - DS felt the same way but stuck with it to stay with his friendship group. He is incredibly sociable and is at a party most weeks. What he has found difficult is the constant drudge of being at school from 8.30-16.00 five days a week. On Friday his last lesson is about 10.15 but he has to stay at school until 4 to participate in "community activities". With Saturday matches and always having to attend the constant open days, interview days etc to help, he has found the whole school 6th form experience extremely time consuming and envys his friends at college their spare time. He's glad he stayed for the social experience and thinks he made the right choice for him, but he outgrew the school routine (it's the same as the prep school for 7 year olds) and petty rules a long time ago and he finds it tough.

DD now has to make a similar decision and she in intent on going to a 6th form college. DH isn't impressed so we have compromised on a private 6th form college in South Ken. None of the time consuming nonsense, just lessons in your own clothes with nobody caring how big your earrings are, she can't wait. Could be worth a look for you DS.

That's food for thought cake - ds left his primary school after year 5 and did 'year 6' at the school he is now at (10+ entry) and that suited him really well. So maybe he does just need a change again, just as he did in year 5.

Your dd's new college isn't MPW, by any chance?

“The thing is, OFSTED is so obsessed with data that a good/outstanding state school has every incentive to monitor students performance within an inch of their lives”

This ^^
DD's 6th form is very good at keeping tabs on the students.

“Do be aware that many state schools are under great financial pressure and so may not be able to offer as wide a range of A levels as your independent school”

And this ^^

I think you should look at 6th form colleges as well as schools. DD’s school is the only school in our LA that has a 6th form, but it is very cliquey and many students who started year 12 there didn’t settle and went to the local 6th form college instead.

Round here a large number of students who have been privately educated go to one particular 6th form college because they offer a much wider range of subjects than the school does. Also, it is one of the best in the country, and why pay out £12k+ a year when you can get a better education just up the road for nothing.

Private
I assumed MPW as well

We took the view that we would rather our kids feel like winners in the state school, than struggling to keep up in the hot housing grammar or private.

They thrived and got top grades, and their (bog standard in political parlance) school really supported them, probably more so than a grammar or fee paying.. and likely because it mattered more to support the motivated kids, as it brought up the overall standard.

They left for uni feeling like they'd really achieved something. And were happy!

Excellent point, Ted, and it's something that's occurred to me too. I think ds feel likes a small fish in a big pond at times, and occasionally still speaks wistfully of his small primary school where he was definitely a Big Fish (or as big a fish as one can be as a tiny blond 9-year-old ).

I try to remind him that in a selective school even if he's in the bottom 50% for a couple of subjects, he's still doing really well, but I don't think he often feels that way. There's definitely a lot to be said for 'feeling like a winner'.

Lots of food for thought, thank you all.

We had the same dilemma and decided it was in their best interest to go to the local comp, and like I said feel like winners.

It was 100% the right decision.

Both were top tier in their chosen A level subjects (very different for each and 4 years apart, the later DD only last year). The school was very supportive, teachers knew them very well, and both left with great grades and 1st choice uni.

Who knows what would have happened at the grammar but we never regretted our decision.

Hope that helps

MPW is DD's preference! although DH is still trying to talk her into staying put or a co-ed boarding for 6th form. It's strange because she is a really good child, never misses homework and has never been in trouble for anything, but being so good she is in constant fear of breaking the rules and being punished and it makes her very nervous. Her brothers are downright awful and sail through school without worring about anything picking up a hundred punishments along the way.

One of my kids went to school comp sixth form, one went to massive sixth form college, one went to smaller, more selective sixth form college

Both of the colleges monitored progress constantly and had teachers who really knew the A level syllabus inside out. I think my kids achieved their potential. School sixth form was slacker, A level teaching seemed a bit less expert. DS definitely was capable of better grades.

I never met Mander, but Portman and Woodward were effing scary when they called me in to meet with my parents once

Is the Petrol Pump still there ?

It depends what he wants do for a level.

Check out all options, private and state, for the specific options he wants to do.

IMO in some places State offers more options (as is bigger) than private

"IMO in some places State offers more options (as is bigger) than private"

That is certainly true of round here. The private school 6th forms have about 60 students in each year. The outstanding 6th form college in the next town offers 31 A level subjects to approximately 2300 students.

If you're worried he will be lazy without the guidance of school based 6th form, then you will really struggle with uni, where he is living away from home, drinking, and skipping more lectures than he's attending!

I'd try and keep him in school for 6th

I’m going to go from a different perspective. I’m only 20, and I have a friend who went to a brilliant private school near us all the way up until year 11. His parents couldn’t afford 6th form there so he came to college, he went from straight A’s so U’s in his first year of A levels and it wasn’t because of a lack of trying.
I think the guidance he had at private school with the resources and small classes were a world apart from the do it yourself lessons at college.
He did resit and went to university but had to redo the years. And wishes he could have stayed private but you know finances don’t always go that far. I think he then realised the opportunity his parents had given him by affording private all those years. Obviously not true for everyone but maybe a factor to think about.
His private class mates all did bloody brilliant at GCSE and A level compared to us that went to state even though our state was meant to be fairly prestigious.