Maths year 10

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DD works hard but when it comes to tests she doesn't achieve as much as she expects. She says the questions in the exam (same test sat across whole year) are a lot harder than the questions they cover in class and that some of the topic areas haven't been covered by her teacher by the time they take the exam.

We recently had our parent teacher consultation and the teacher started off by telling me how she like to focus the majority of her time on the middle range questions and not very much time of the difficult stuff. DD explained to her that often she goes over stuff in class that she already knows and she feels not enough time of the stuff that comes up in the exams. She said if she wanted to do harder maths she should just go on Hegarty Maths and that as far as she was concerned she was covering everything.

I wonder is it just me or how can a student who is not being taught how to answer harder questions, ever hope to answer the harder questions. Every time dd sits a Maths paper she comes out feeling like she couldn't answer most of it. Dd asked if the teacher can go over the test papers in class to help her understand where she went wrong, she agreed to that.

Then the level that set 2 is being taught to goes up. There isn’t a strict script for set 1, then a different script for set 2. There’s a scheme of work that both sets will be following and the teachers will teach to an appropriate level for their class. If their class are whizzing through it, they push them a bit harder. If they’re struggling, they slow the pace.
It’s a professional judgement thing.

It’s a professional judgement thing. And some teachers are known for pushing and some are known for taking it easy.

Different kids respond to different teachers in different ways. A teacher ‘known for pushing’ which you might see as a positive could equally be the teacher who ‘goes too fast and knocks our confidence’ to another student in the same class.

noble I know that sets are taught overlapping stuff! It was how the children are put into sets I was wondering about. Some posters above say their child 'missed a set by 1 mark', whereas at our school test marks are only one of the things that are taken into account. So I was just wondering what is normal/common practice for making set decisions.

I am surprised there's no differentiation, within sets...is that not a thing? Extension work out of fashion now?

how the children are put into sets I was wondering about

Sorry, misunderstood! It depends on the school. Some schools set by target grade regardless of prior attainment! Some do on tests alone, some on mix of tests and teacher recommendation.

Extension work out of fashion now?

Does your DD ask for it?

Yes she does, she's directed to Hegarty Maths.

Noble do you only give out extension work when the pupil asks you? Don't you know when kids need it? Don't you ask how students are doing with each topic...is it always up to the student to continually ask for more challenging work? DD is pretty quiet in class, she feels quite embarrassed asking for more challenging work, she asked and was told to look at Hegarty Maths. If Hegarty Maths is sufficient for teaching more advanced concepts why bother with teachers?

do you only give out extension work when the pupil asks you? Don't you know when kids need it?

Not all the time, it’s hard to judge what kids find hard/easy and sometimes it doesn’t go as expected, and individual kids don’t do as well/badly as you expect.

When I set work in class, the questions tend to get harder. Sometimes they can skip easier questions. If a student is still working, they don’t need extension work, they need to do the work set. If they have finished then yes, they need to ask for more work because I can’t be watching everyone that closely.

If your DD is being directed to Hegarty Maths, that’s outside of lessons so presumably she’s not sat in lessons with nothing to do?

They had a couple of kids in set 2 last year get 9s - no surprise they had tutors.

I’m not sure what your point is here? Students do better in exams when they have private individual tuition? That’s not unusual, surely.

They couldn’t get a level 9 without accessing help elsewhere, because they weren’t being taught to answer level 9 questions.

But that’s true of pretty much every student. Most kids would do better if given 1-1 tuition than they would do just in a class of 30. You can’t criticise a school for not getting as good results as someone teaching a single kid!

Teen Although DDs school claimed they would take attitude to learning and prior assessments into account they did not and just went with scores on the end of year test. Apparently they had a large number of similar ability students and couldn’t accommodate them all in the same set. This was when DDs teacher in trying to reassure me told me that she had only scored one mark below another student who is now in the set above DD and that I shouldn’t worry as they would be doing the same work. This has turned out to be total rubbish. I am then told that in order to move up DD needs to score higher that those in the set above but how is this possible if she has not been taught certain things.

How are parents supposed to keep kids motivated in these situations? The only way is to pay for private tutoring which not everyone can afford.

@noble The point is that parents are being put in a situation by the current system where they have to pay for their DC to get a good maths grade. Not everyone can afford this.

I know most kids would benefit from 1to1 that's not my point. My point is that the dcs are not being taught the right material to get a 9 - getting a 9 is impossible unless you are taught the material that set 1 are being taught and the only way to do this is have a parent or a tutor who will teach what set 2 misses out on.

There is an assumption here that if pupils are simply taught the work in lessons, they will be able to do the work. That’s just not true, if it were, everyone in set 1 would get a 9.

If you have two students of similar ability and in the same amount of time teach one student everything that’s on a test and the other student misses out some topics but learns the others more thoroughly then it doesn’t automatically follow that student 1 outperforms student 2.

Back Any parent who can afford tutors/private school can buy better grades for their kids than they would probably get in a free state offering. That’s not the state school’s fault. That’s what people are paying for!

I think part of the issue is with the new Maths papers there seems to be so many questions that students cannot answer. There’s also the for those that are somewhere in the middle either being limited to a 5 at foundation or do they attempt the higher paper hoping for a good day and maybe get a 6.

In our area tutors do well and the schools get fantastic results, the league tables don't tell the whole story.
On going around one of the local secondary schools with a pupil we were told it was cool if you found a subject difficult, you just got a tutor and that fixed everything, it's is very much a thing where we live....but the schools are amazing don't ya know, all outstanding. Getting good maths & science teachers is a problem where we live, the kids know it, we all do.

It’s not just a problem where you live!

Ds1 was in a top set maths group but the top performing child suddenly disappeared from his maths group in year 8 when they had a reshuffle, but they were still told they were top set maths they had just divided them over 2 classes.

Ds took statistics as an option which we believed helped him achieve the highest maths scores in year 9. He was then moved up to the 8/9 maths set at the beginning of year 10. We were worried that firstly he hadn't covered the same topics as this elite maths set and at parent's evening our first question was is he struggling. Luckily, no.

But as there are topics he hasn't covered we took @noblegiraffe's advice on here for the GCSE stuff, he currently tests his knowledge on mathsbot and Corbett maths and then Dh helps him if there is anything he needs help with.

He is looking to do further maths at A level and is extending his own knowledge now in plenty of time for GCSEs next year.

There is only so much time a teacher can put in with an individual pupil, if your DD has been referred to maths sites to help her, then use those sites. Surely these days everything is literally at your fingertips, the internet offers a whole host of learning resources for free.

Surely these days everything is literally at your fingertips, the internet offers a whole host of learning resources for free. Almost no point in having teachers.

Almost no point in having teachers

I volunteer in a primary school, teachers are amazing. The internet can never really replace a teacher. We see it as an extension to their teaching. I agree there are some mediocre teachers but there are some incredible ones. Some of them (noble) share their knowledge and help direct parents to resources.

I think having twins in different sets makes it very difficult as you have a direct comparison of teaching staff. But, one child can love a teacher and another child can hate them.

@HoneyJamMarmalade - I think teachers are essential - especially if you are trying to access the trickier parts of the course, the internet is certainly a useful tool but I don't think it's sufficient.