Is it reasonable to judge a secondary school on the number of its pupils who spend lunchtimes hanging around the tube station smoking?

[frogs]

Well?

This is considered a desirable school, btw. But I don't understand why (a) they let them off the premises at lunchtime in the first place and (b) why the staff don't do patrols of likely hangouts to check who's getting up to what.

Dd1's school do both (a) and (b), as did my school back in the 80s. Does it matter? Should I care?

Yes, same problem re space at this school. They keep KS3 in.

Lots of schools in inner london don't have much space.

Yes, same problem re space at this school. They keep KS3 in.

Lots of schools in inner london don't have much space.

When this nonsmoking ban kicks in the teachers are going to be out there with them

It kicked in here two years ago charliecat, and no sign of the staff just yet

Oh, where do they go, on the roof out of sight?

saltire, the last time i was in St andrews I had to bite my tongue not to tell the kids to tuck in their shirts and do up their ties! Force of habit with me nowerdays

But these were in F and Ds so 'nice' kids

(Our hospital is no smoking and on the main drag through town and theres always at least 6 members of staff outside on the wall chuffing)

Charliecat, no behind the bikesheds, silly

Our school is now all non-smoking. The teacher who smoke slope off site at Break/ lunch time.

Kids will still smoke, even while on school premices.

You jusr do the best that you can to stop them.

We are a very 'Trad' school btw, regarding uniform.

There is another, even more high-achieving girls' school in the same borough which reportedly has a smoking common room for the over-16s.

Bellabear, I wasn't going to name the school! I didn't realise it was just KS4 who were out there -- is it just for reasons of space? I can't really see what productive activity one could expect 15-16 yo to be carrying out within a mile of the school gates at lunchtime...

Will CAT you, if you're sure you don't mind.

I didn't think you were going to

yes, CAT me

So, nowadays, is smoking regarded as a sign of bad behaviour in teenagers? sorry, genuine question, don't have a clue about teenagers.

I went to an inner city school - barely any outside space and nobody with any credibility would have wanted to hang out on the playing fields anyway so we all huddled inside. I thought that was normal...

Why is it ok to let school children out at lunchtime? Doesn't matter about lack of space - they should be on school premises.

Personally I wouldn't like it (and I know the school you are talking about and had heard similar positive things but maybe positive things about schools in London are just relative...)

frogs I used to live in the next street to that school. Alot of the children came to our street to smoke/eat chips at lunchtime.

I understood it is considered to be a good school, but it would have put me off it.

Franca, English schools regard themselves as being 'in loco parentis' in a way that is not necessarily the case elsewhere (Germany for example). So they will try to promote the kind of behaviour that a reasonably conscientious parent would want from their child -- ie. looking smart, not smoking, and generally not behaving in a way that is likely to annoy or offend passers-by. The extent to which schools are able to enforce these kinds of standards is generally pretty indicative of the level of control they have over their pupils. So yes, pupils obviously smoking directly outside the school would usually be considered a Bad Thing.

No, dino, bless him, he'd probably be out perfecting his bowling or some other wholesome, hearty team-based activity. He's playing in an Under 9's cricket match in Regents Park on Friday and is so, so excited.

I understand now, thank you, sometimes I feel like coming from a different planet.

'in loco parentis' only applies within the school grounds though. not 100m away. if a school has within the school policy to let kids out during lunchtime then it is something the parents signed up to when they chose the school.

To the OP - yes I think it's a great way to judge! That sort of thing should be published along with the league table results. We also want to know what proportion of the kids have shaven heads, carry knives, eat chips, and have parents with scary tattoos and bull-mastiffs.

D3's school only lets them out at lunch time from year 10. All others have to stay on premises unless they go home for lunch then they have to have a lunch pass and only get that if a parent has sent in a letter.