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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

Secondary School Admissions

23 replies

bookmum08 · 09/04/2018 11:27

I have a year 5 daughter so will be applying for secondary school next Sept/Oct. We are in London where there are 100s of schools but for years we have wanted to move out of London and I have suddenly thought now might be the time. However there is no way we could move before October (deadline for applying) so if we did move it would be a late application.
This is where I worry about getting a place.
Town A that we hope to go to has 2 schools plus a third which is RC. Town B has 3 plus 1 C of E. All the schools seem fine to me. If we apply late would it be that the LA has to find a place in one of the schools. I hear tales every year of children not getting 'any' school places because the schools are 'full'. Are schools required to keep a few places for children moving into the area? Surely however many 11 year olds live in a town =how many yr 7 places there are? Does it work like that?
Thanks.

OP posts:

woodlanddreamer · 09/04/2018 11:31

They have to find you a school, but that could be any school, not just the ones you put on your CAF, so it could be miles away, and a failing school.

Original poster

bookmum08 · 09/04/2018 11:41

So could it be any school in the county not the actual town?

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PatriciaHolm · 09/04/2018 11:44

I'm afraid not. Schools don't keep places for people moving in I'm afraid.

You will be given a place somewhere, but it doesn't have to be a school of your choice, or the nearest ones. It could be some distance away - secondary school children are expected to be able to do a journey of 3 miles/75 minutes. It could be even further than that if that is the only school with spaces, but then the LA would have to provide transport (could be a bus pass).

If all schools within a wide radius were full, the LA could invoke something called the FAP which would essentially force (or try to) a more local school to accommodate, but again this would be in the school they deemed best able to cope, not necessarily one of your choice.

Of course, you can go on waiting lists and/or appeal as well.

Original poster

bookmum08 · 09/04/2018 11:50

One of the counties is about 70 miles from top to bottom though. Surely they wouldn't expect a child to travel 70 miles?

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KirstenRaymonde · 09/04/2018 11:56

No they don’t keep places for anyone who doesn’t apply in the proper process, let alone children who may move into the area. Children who later arrive in the area have to be found a place but it could be any school within about an hour drive that has a place. If the nearest schools all have 150 year 7 places and they’re full, you go to the back of the waiting list after those that didn’t make the 150 in the original process, even if you move next door to the school.

In many places there just aren’t enough places, you’d think number of 11 year olds would = number of places but in many places it doesn’t. Where I am (London end of a home county) houses are being built at a far far greater rate than provisions for the people who will live in them are being increased. Doctors surgery built for 9000 has 19000 on the books. School catchment areas becoming minute because one house is being knocked down and 2,3,4, being built on the land. The schools are having the expand to meet the need but this is very hard to do, councils don’t have the money to fund the building work. Not an easy situation.

KirstenRaymonde · 09/04/2018 11:57

Having to expand*

prh47bridge · 09/04/2018 12:03

No, they wouldn't expect a child to travel 70 miles. The maximum journey that is considered reasonable for a secondary child is 75 minutes each way. But it could be 10 or more miles away. They will have to provide free transport if it is more than 3 miles away from home by the shortest safe walking route.

As others have said, you will get a place somewhere. You can also go on the waiting list for your preferred schools and appeal for them, although there is no guarantee that either of these routes will result in a place. Note that being a late applicant will not affect your position on the waiting list. That is determined by the school's admission criteria. You can go ahead of on-time applicants on the waiting list. So, if you move near to one of your preferred schools, you may get a place through the waiting list even if you miss out initially.

Original poster

bookmum08 · 09/04/2018 12:24

Thanks.
It's a bit overwhelming going from a borough that is about 6 miles top to bottom to a county that 70 ish miles.

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flowery · 09/04/2018 12:28

”However there is no way we could move before October”

Is there really no flexibility with that at all?

EduCated · 09/04/2018 12:29

I wouldn’t get hung up on the county size - you can apply for schools outside your county, and the LA may well place you at a school in a neighbouring county if it is closer than one in county.

Original poster

bookmum08 · 09/04/2018 12:43

It would be a crazy mad rush to move before October. We would have to give two months notice on our flat, save up money for new a flat/house deposit etc. Plus figure out a primary place for rest of year five + next year. It would be quite a lot of chaos.

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TammyWhyNot · 10/04/2018 07:30

“you go to the back of the waiting list after those that didn’t make the 150 in the original process, even if you move next door to the school.”
Not true. All admissions have to be done according to the published admissions criteria, so you slot into the waiting list accordingly, at any stage. As prh47 said below.

OP, have a look at the LA admissions brochure on their website. It should list all the schools, ‘last distance ‘ and how over-subscribed they are, or even if they are! They might not even be oversubscribed.

You can go on waiting lists for several schools, and apply to any in neighbouring counties if they are close enough and easy to get to. The county you live in makes no difference to the schools you can apply to or your chances of getting a place.

shouldwestayorshouldwego · 10/04/2018 07:41

If you are renting then it will always be disruptive but it would be doable in the timeframe. Why not plan to move at the end of the summer term of year 5. Less stressful knowing you only need a place for a year, so even if it is in a less popular school it won't be for long. Otherwise if you move between yr6 and 7 she might be allocated a school far away which isn't as good. You need to find out how oversubscribed the primary and secondary schools are in the area.

madeyemoodysmum · 10/04/2018 07:43

What towns are you considering Someone with more knowledge could help if we knew more info

Original poster

bookmum08 · 10/04/2018 08:45

It would be Kettering Northamptonshire or Banbury Oxfordshire. I'm not that hung up on 'good school' vs 'failing' schools and all that - I am more about children going to their local school. It just seems (from what I have read) that sometimes children are allocated a school that isn't even in their town because the town schools are 'full'. That just doesn't seem right.

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SheilaFentiman · 10/04/2018 16:27

"sometimes children are allocated a school that isn't even in their town because the town schools are 'full'. That just doesn't seem right."

But why not? How else could it be done?

Having said that, many areas outside of London don't have every school full. I do agree with others up thread that if you can possibly move, you should - being at a 'worse' school for yr6 is easier than being at a 'worse; school throughout secondary.

SheilaFentiman · 10/04/2018 16:56

If it is really impossible to move by 31 October, you could put down some schools in the area (I would pick one of your areas) as your top choices on the form and put London schools lower down.

If the regional schools are not full, then I think you should be offered a place regardless of distance. Of course, you then would not have a London school place and would be committed to making the move.

Some areas give a higher preference to people who move after Oct 31 but before some other cut off date (check with the relevant LA, though), and certainly if you are on the waiting list after allocations, you would move up it if your distance to the school reduced.

Original poster

bookmum08 · 10/04/2018 17:16

So are you saying shelia that no one should ever move in and out of a town for the 12 years their child is at school? People move all the time - not always through choice. I also don't think putting a school in Northamptonshire or Oxfordshire on my application list when we live in South London would make any sense at all. There is no way (even if there were spaces) a school would offer a place to a child whose home address is over 100 miles away!!
I don't think we could move before October mostly due to the costs of moving. It's so frustrating because it's 18 months before she actually will go to Secondary School.

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prh47bridge · 10/04/2018 17:52

No, Sheila is not saying that. She is simply stating that, if all schools in a town are full, any child moving into the town will have to go to school elsewhere. If the nearest school with places is an unreasonable distance away (more than 75 minutes each way) the LA will try to get one of the local schools to take an additional pupil. But sometimes the local schools are so stretched they simply can't take any more.

There is no way (even if there were spaces) a school would offer a place to a child whose home address is over 100 miles away

Yes they would. They are required to do so by law. If I were to apply for a school in Carlisle from an address in Penzance they would have to offer me a place if there is one available.

prh47bridge · 10/04/2018 17:56

And if you weren't referring to that part of Sheila's post, she is just explaining how the system works. The system does not make any special provision for people moving. Places are not held back in case they are needed. If you move whilst your child is at school you have to accept that you may not get the school you want and you may end up with a school some distance from home. It depends where you move to. In some places you won't have any problems at all, in others you will struggle. I'm afraid that is just how things are.

Original poster

bookmum08 · 10/04/2018 18:18

It isn't so much about getting a school 'I want' but if a town has four schools by living in that town I would want her to attend one of those four - I wouldn't be fussed which one - but it's not complicated to want to attend a school in a town I live in!!!
But it obviously doesn't work like that!! Seems rather bizarre.
Not really sure what will happen with our lives over the next 18 months so we will just have a see..

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Original poster

bookmum08 · 10/04/2018 18:28

Apologies shelia if I seemed a bit rude to your reply.
I think suddenly realising that it's only 6 months to this massive decision is freaking me out a bit.

OP posts:

SheilaFentiman · 12/04/2018 13:19

Hi bookmum

No problem, it's stressful. As prh says - I was just trying to explain the system.

It wouldn't be fair to pupils already living in an area if spare spaces were kept in an oversubscribed school 'just in case' people moved. Of course, people always will move and the LA will then need to find them some school place, but they aren't reserved.

Have you investigated your preferred schools to see if they are generally full? You never know, this might not be an issue!

Regarding offering of places: all applications go into a computerised system and if you qualify for your first or other preference then you will get it. Of course, if the school is generally full with siblings, more local people etc then you won't be far enough up the list to be offered a place, but if it isn't full, then you will. If you do want to do this, you will need to find out ahead of time through your own LA how to apply to another LA (the London system allows adjacent counties to be included on the online form but probably not Northants so you may need to do a paper application to your local LA)

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