Appeal panel members - how strong is my case?

[Cystaltipps]

Hello,

I'm looking for opinions about how strong my appeal case is as we currently live overseas (not crown servants) so attending the hearing will be difficult and costly. We have these options:

• pay for flights back to the UK and take holiday from work to attend the hearing in person
• pay a solicitor to represent us (it seems this is not received well by panels)
• ask one of our son's Grandparents to attend in our place (in the nicest possible way this may hinder, rather than help us !)

The house we own (and will be living in by Sep) is a mile from the school. The furthest successful applicant lives 13 miles away. The school we have been offered is also a mile from our house so we can't argue distance is an issue. We didn't get a place as our application was late and our overseas address was used - I accept this, just giving a bit of background.

Our appeal will be based on the following:

(1) The school's PAN does not align with its actual capacity.
The school (an academy) has recently built a new building which news reports say will be ready to use this June. The news articles say this will increase the capacity by 60 pupils. However, no increase has been made to the PAN (209 per year). The D of E website says the capacity (before the new building has been taken into account) is 1045, in May last year they had 957 pupils on roll.

(2) The school offers a more comprehensive education in my son's specialist subject than the one offered. My son is particularly good with technology, specifically coding. I appreciate this isn't (yet) measurable like sport, music or even other academic subjects. However, he applied and was accepted into a 'hard-to-get-into' coding club at his current school and the school we're appealing for offers a coding club too (the one offered doesn't). I can provide a copy of his acceptance letter into the club. The preferred school also offers 2 different KS4 ICT qualifications, while the offered school only offers one.

(3) Other (less compelling) arguments such as friendship groups and an oddly reassuring message from the school about getting a place
There is the existing friendship group argument but I understand this holds no sway. There is also some surprising advice re admissions on the appeal school's website, suggesting that it's unlikely anyone would be unsuccessful, eg. " in recent years we have been able to offer a place in Year 7 to everyone who wanted one". I don't know if this will indicate a flexibility on the part of the school to the appeal panel?

Anyway, I hope for a few viewpoints on the strength of this appeal which might help with our decision making.

Many thanks in advance

And lol at secondary classes being limited to 30!

Adding 12 to a PAN would not be done. Classes are 30 so PAN is multiples of 30

Even at primary school level that isn't true. There are many schools that have a PAN that is not a multiple of 30. The nearest primary school to me has a PAN of 50, for example. It is, however, true that many primary schools have a PAN which is a multiple of 15 or 30.

At secondary school it isn't true at all. PAN can be all kinds of strange figures. It is often a nice round number (although not necessarily divisible by 30 - many secondary schools don't have 30 per class) but there are many schools where it isn't. PANs such as 308 are not uncommon. As this is a secondary school it is quite possible that it could increase PAN by 12.

Every single secondary where I live, and where I have worked, is a multiple of 30 for obvious reasons! It makes admissions a lot easier. Clearly in other areas there might be odd numbers due to buildings, but not having a PAN for a secondary as divisible by 30, makes for a difficult life. You either set a lower class size which means the school income is lower than it might be and there are loads of appeals, or you deliberately take over 30 per class without need for appeal because the pan is set to accommodate that. I guess if you have space and regularly do that, it doesn’t matter. It’s hardly clear though. No wonder parents get confused!

Primary pan of 50 makes no sense. My LA asked all our primary schools to review pans which were strange because we had some where clearly appeals were being heard but in reality they would take above pan all the time. So 55, 52 etc generally became 60. 66 became 90 etc. I guess we are a more organised LA who wishes to make it easier for parents.

308 means they have 10 classes of 30 and will take 8 extra without appeal so 8 of the classes have 31. It’s stupid really. They just have not bothered to review it. Sad if you are the two extra who don’t get a place and have to appeal!

teaching secondary classes of over 30 is pretty normal... Why would a PAN of 31 be difficult? Class sizes are determined according to the subject and ability set. A set 1 Maths might have 34 kids, a set 4 maths only 12. There is no particular advantage in sticking rigidly to 30.

Likewise in a primary, a PAN of a multiple of 30 makes sense at KS1 if the school has capacity, but a PAN of 20 or 40 or 45 or 50 just means mixed class teaching which isn't exactly rare.

308 means they have 10 classes of 30 and will take 8 extra without appeal so 8 of the classes have 31. It’s stupid really

No, it isn't stupid at all. I drew that example from a specific school although I could have quoted many other figures. In this particular case a PAN of 308 means they've got 14 classes of 22. Your assumption that secondary schools run classes of 30 is wrong.

Primary pan of 50 makes no sense

Again, it makes perfect sense. The school runs two classes of 25 in Reception, Y1 and Y2. They then have 3 classes of 30 covering years 3 and 4 and a further 3 classes covering years 5 and 6. Given the size of the school it works well but it does mean that appeals are not heard under infant class size rules.

The problem is your assumptions on class sizes, not what the schools are doing.

Sorry - for 3 classes of 30 covering Y3/4 read 3 classes of 33/34. Thinking one thing and typing another.

I've just checked my LEA's stats and have 10 secondaries, out of 54, which don't have a PAN of a multiple of 30. It's really not that unusual.

There is no legislative reason why a school class, especially at secondary, should be set at 30. Infant class size rules obviously determine that as a max in reception, year 1 and 2, but after that it's essentially an arbitrary number that often works in terms of standard classroom sizes, pupil manageability and income generated in terms of headcount. However, it's habit that sets it at 30, say, rather than 31, 28, 29... etc. Humans tend to like round numbers...

A school having 8 tutor groups of 28, for example, for good reasons doesn't set it itself up for successful appeals for 16 more pupils.

The school has just replied to say they didn’t increase their PAN as there was simply no need (they have been undersubscribed until now)....If it did come to appeal, they said they would be prepared to go over PAN. They also said “one way or another we are confident your son will have a place at the school in September”.

That sounds worth pursuing. I got my child in on PAN, but in yr8. ( We failed the yr7 appeal) I compared how many extra students they had taken in every form for the last couple of years. It was a very oversubscribed school. Their PAN was 150 but they were prepared to go up to 155. Some year groups were slightly less due to children moving away.
I think the fact they haven't had to really deal with this before as they have been undersubscribed may help you?
You can get the figures from the LEA. Look at what happened last year with this year.

Sounds like it will just be rubber stamped at appeal. I sat on appeals panels for years and this often happened in undersubscribed schools.The head would not oppose the appeal. I always thought it was a shame they had to make the parents go through the process.

It’s annoying that it would even come to appeal if the school’s happy to accept over PAN, especially as for us to attend the hearing it’d involve flying 10,000 miles. The school did say that it wouldn’t be necessary for us to attend in person though. I wish in cases like this, the school could just decide to admit some of the waiting list based on the true number of pupils they feel they could cope with.

They can decide to do that unless this is a community school. It may yet be that they will do so but they need a meeting of the governors to make that kind of decision.

Can one of you move back at the beginning of the summer, rather than September?

I might be able to move back early with the kids but we have tenants in our house and no family locally so it’d be tricky. Plus over here they’re still in school right through the northern hemisphere’s summer and have missed loads of school already. Might be worth it though. Anyone know which week the very latest appeals of the school year take place in?

Legally I think you can appeal and have to be heard at any time.

But I meant because as soon as you are back in your house, you whizz up the waiting list. Every person who wins an appeal before you affects the PAN and every place that comes up before you get back will go to someone else. Places come up over the summer as people move house.

Could you move back with the applicant child? Once you are back in your house, as an address, you could always ‘go on holiday’ until September. It would cost you the air fares and those months rental though.

But the sooner you are in your house the sooner you are in the running to get a waiting list place. You’ll go into the list in order of how you meet the criteria. Only people who live nearer will be ahead. (And people who have been winning appeals).

To be honest if you're 5th on the waiting list living abroad, without taking into account places being rejected, it doesn't sound like moving back will help particularly - you may well find your self top of the list in a week or two. Or with a place.

Regarding the appeal, it might be worth exploring whether you can attend via Skype?

True. (Re waiting list chances).

We wouldn’t be able to move into our actual house yet as it is tenanted. Obviously I could rent a short term place in the catchment (AirBnB etc) and provide evidence of the date of our move back into our house but I doubt this would meet the residency criteria. However, I do feel more positive about our current chances following discussions on here and e-mails from the school. Thank you to all who took the time to respond

You would need to talk to the LA about this potential course of action, different LAs have different attitudes to what constitutes main residency. They might take a view that you can use your actual house address if you can prove that you are moving in on a set date given the place is not required till September and you will be in the house by then. Alternatively they may say it has to be the address you are living at when you move back to the UK, that is the short term let. Either way make sure that you put the request in writing and get a response in writing, so there can be no argument about who said what.

The plot thickens...

I've just come off the phone with the school. They didn't want to put what they had to say in an e-mail. At the beginning of this week they asked me to return a form indicating whether I wanted to remain on the waiting list and if I would go to appeal. I returned it saying yes to both.

Now "off the record" they are asking me to return the form again saying I won't go to appeal. The reason being that they have not had an appeal for a long time and don't want to have to go through the rigmarole of organising one when they're completely sure that we'll get a place through waiting list movements anyway. We are now at number 2 on the list.

I don't want to antagonise a school that we will hopefully have a long future relationship with, plus neither party really wants to start appeal preparations unnecessarily but I worry that if they're wrong about a place, we will have missed our chance. They want to go over PAN but apparently the LA won't let them without an appeal. Any advice?

Also how long is considered 'reasonable' before a place is withdrawn due to there being no response from the applicant? The school is still waiting on a few acceptances.

Yes - appeal!

They've got a cheek tbh - basically 'Please don't appeal cos we can't be arsed to sort one out.'

Don't worry about your future relationship with them - they're obviously not bothered about theirs with you.

Remember the risk is entirely yours, not theirs.

You need that on writing if you don't appeal!

My local primary has a pan of 56. It was worked out based on floor space.

I don't think any of our secondaries have a multiple of 30.

OP. I would pursue the appeal. Academies usually have to pay for appeals which is why they would want to avoid them if possible.