What the poor really need is to go to a Military School

[noblegiraffe]

...says Gavin Williamson who also has one eye on the army recruitment crisis, no doubt.

“The Tory MP has already said Armed Forces schools in deprived areas would boost the ‘life chances, confidence and self-discipline’ of youngsters.”

metro.co.uk/2018/04/02/government-backing-plans-create-military-schools-help-poor-children-7434494/

I agree with him to an extent!

Holy crap! I don't even know where to start with that.

Nope, that’s what happens in the US. Lots of young men from deprived back grounds join up.

I’m not convinced that for the majority it makes any difference to their life prospects when they come out.

Get a comprehensive education to make up for their comprehensive education

I work in an alternative provision school where students who've been permanently excluded or are in danger of being excluded go. The number of people who say these kids need to be sent to the army makes me

I know people who've been in the army. I'm grateful for their service but one thing it's not going to do is sort out any of the troubled young people I work with. IME the Army creates a whole load of new problems for very many servicemen and women.

OTOH, good quality education coupled with strong discipline would help lots poor students. I don't know why that has to be in a military school though.

I hate the suggestions of military school or national service. I was in the army and have family still serving. Serving in the armed forces is not a punishment, its a bloody hard job for people who want to be there.

Just for boys, or for girls too?

military service is a good option for some, and certainly needs to be promoted as an honorable option. where i live the military programs often are a little different than the national apprenticeship standards (for electrical technician for example) and are not exactly transferable after you have completed your service. that could be improved.
i would also like to see a service stream dedicated to non combat (say boarder control or emergency response) that might improve uptake.

The Duke of York’s Military Academy is 40% girls.

What the article doesn’t mention is that it’s a boarding school. I expect it is easier to set up a ‘military ethos’ when you can control every aspect of their lives.

So are they suggesting that poor kids need to be sent to boarding school on top of military discipline?

military service is a good option for some

I’m sure it is. I just wonder why it’s considered as a good option specifically for the poor.

Ahhh use the thick poor as cannon fodder

It smacks a little too much of “ poor blaming” as in “ military service will sort them out” like they are trouble makers.
NO Gavin, money and equal life chances would sort them out!
I have worked in the military and seen them do wonderful things for kids from troubled backgrounds, but it’s not the answer for every poor kid. For every one that gets a sense of belonging another fails and feels even more on the margins.

What the poor really need is to go to a Military School...
and all the other members of the "Snowflake Generation"!

Surely the military have made it clear, for many years now, that they want professional service men and women and not to be a safety net for those with no other prospects

It’s not as though countries with national service don’t have any poor people is it?

Mind you my BF didn’t do national service ina country that had it. He’s gay, and his dad never shuts up about how if he’d done service he would’ve been “sorted out”

From being gay? 😂 what are the army going to do about that?

I'm looking forward to seeing what the evidence gathering says!

Is this to meet a School financial sponsor need? Or an anticipated skills shortage in combat and non combat recruitment? Is this soft entry towards returning to national service? Why target poor kids?

I suspect Gavin W probably doesn't know either.

In my experience starting out (once you’ve completed secondary) is difficult. Getting an apprenticeship if you have no connections or live in an area that doesn’t support apprenticeships makes it harder. If you have no exposure to employment options it’s hard to know what you want to do.
As with all things youth who have financial and family support often have other options, or enter later after some education at officer level.

An application for a free school in Oldham to be run by former military personnel was rejected by the DfE in 2012. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-18832576

Can’t make their minds up.

It's 1897 again.

Looks like Gavin had dusted this report off...
I went straight to the conclusion and the three level headings are;

• revitalising the reserves
• rescuing the young
• helping society

[reaches for chilled glass of wine]

www.respublica.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/jnw_ResPublica-Military-Academies.pdf

Oh good find, Motherhood. Let’s see in September how closely the final report matches that one!

This bit was interesting:

“The teaching would be delivered by graduates qualified to teach in the normal manner initially recruited into the Reserves’ through University Officer Training Corps (and Naval and Air equivalents), as well as teachers who subsequently choose to join the Reserve Forces. Suitably qualified or experienced ex-regular service personnel would also be a vital part of the staff. Civilian teaching staff who express support for this unique approach founded in a military ethos should also be able to join.”

Because recruiting bog standard teachers isn’t hard enough!

Motherhood that report hasn’t aged well. It mentions the Phoenix military school as an interesting case - the one whose free school application was rejected by the DfE. It also confidently announces that the schools could be staffed through the wonderful Troops to Teachers program and that these troops would stay longer in teaching than bog-standard teachers because they would be better at discipline. Pity the Troops to Teachers program had to be closed because no one wanted to do it!

Why do people always want to mix up the military and education? Discipline in order to get kids to learn stuff they don’t want to and discipline in order to create a fighting unit capable of defeating the enemy from people who have chosen to be there are surely two different things?

Why do people always want to mix up the military and education?

The same reason politicians want to do most things - pretend there are easy solutions to complex problems, garner a few good headlines in the right newspapers and ignore the actual problems.

The military have always recruited from the poor. They used to take those who couldn’t get jobs elsewhere. Often from deprived areas and those with poor schools. No change really! Now they kill and maim soldiers and everyone knows about it, there are fewer recruits. No suriruse there either. Even the poor don’t want to get killed!

On the upside... I know someone (poor ) who joined the military. He passed several selection processes both physically and mentally. He did his driving licence working his way up past a lorry all the way to a tank.
Firstly, it's not that easy to join up - you need to demonstrate some stamina.
Secondly, said person would never have been able to afford to learn to drive a vehicle any time soon because of his background coming from a (financially) poor family.
Thirdly, the military does offer the right person great products.
Lastly, nobody is forced to join the military...

Ha Ha it should read .... great prospects!