Can the school ask for this much medical info?

[Verbena37]

Going to try not to make this too outing and have mentioned DD’s med issues in another thread but now she is recovered, I’m hoping to ask a quick question.

So her current attendance is 77%, having had it down at low 60’s before Christmas....when she had been long term poorly with pretty much in’own illness since last summer.
Now, with only a couple of months left until after GCSEs, she will only be able to make it to around 85% if she attends every day.

However, following a meeting with school, they’ve said that even if she is off for one single day, I have to take her to the GP for a doctors note/evidence she is ill.

At no time have the school not authorised her absences and I’ve sent in three hospital consultant letters (not the result letters) showing our concern regarding dd’s health. DD is a really conscientious student, predicted high 8’s for GCSEs. Since her pre-Christmas mocks, where she didn’t do as well as she hoped (but didn’t fail any), she has already in the last set of mocks just completed, gone up 2 grades in maths, 3 grades in French, still got a 7 for biology and a 6 for physics compared to the 5 before xmas.

At the school attendance meeting, I was asked straight away to give details of dd’s illness and I told them much more medical information than I believed I had to. Obviously, they wanted to outline what I should do if DD was too ill to come in for any actual GCSE exams and of course, if she was too ill to get out of bed, I’d have to go and get a GP note on the day.

Other than that though, now she is better from the block of long illness before Christmas and the Feb half term illness (that was totally unrelated), I don’t feel that if she was ill between now and the exams that I would need to take her to the GP for example one 12 hour vomiting bug. They are saying I would. Just because she has low attendance from previous illness, is it fair of them to clump future illness together in that and demand a gp note?

School said if it was a staff member with that much sickness they’d have to explain.
However, at no time, has DD been off for more than a few consecutive days and only twice was off for 5 in a row (after which you would then need a GP note).

It’s fairly standard to ask students with low attendance for a GP note to prove future illnesses. It’s supposed to make parents who keep their kids home for a sniffle think about whether that’s actually reasonable and to make the default to send them in.

Whether it’s a reasonable request is another thing entirely. I think some GPs charge for such a letter and others refuse to give them.
What will happen if you don’t provide a letter? The absence would possibly go down as unauthorised. This late in the day in Y11 they’re probably not going to do much about it. I would cross that bridge when you come to it.

I've sent in three hospital consultant letters (not the result letters) showing our concern regarding dd’s health

This is your problem. You have only shown them letters that show your concern. That is not evidence anything was wrong with your DD.

There have been huge changes in safeguarding since the Daniel Pelka/Victoria Climbie cases. Schools will no longer take a parents concerns as proof of long term health problems. They must be shown evidence from a GP/Consultant for them to provide the correct care for your child, and not make any condition worse by their actions, and for them to authorise any absences.

If your DD has a long term health condition that means she is absent from school then you really need to tell them showing them the evidence from any medical professionals. The school will make specific arrangements for your daughter and involve the correct members of staff to support her through her remaining time at the school. They do not share this information with anyone else.

If you choose not to share this information with them then you cannot expect them to authorise absences that occur and you may end up with a fine.

I'm not sure why you wouldn't tell the school of anything that may affect your DD day to day. And surely you understand they will not just accept your word that she has xx condition without any evidence from a professional?

Sorry, I meant that the letters were consultant appointment letters....not just letters of our concern.

Thanks Noble. You’re right about end of Yr 11....the school said county wouldn’t do anything anyway but I guess it’s about school attendance stats?

The fact that she has never had a single detention or behaviour point surely shows she cares about her schooling and isn’t just skiiving at home....which she wasn’t.

And surely you understand they will not just accept your word that she has xx condition without any evidence from a professional?
Why would a letter from a 'professional' be any more truthful than a letter from a parent? Let school pass absences onto the local authority, and when the threatening letters come show the local authority. Or go to court and show them.

What I was meaning (not sure I worded it well) was when the school asked for better evidence than 2 private consultants letters (appointment and fees to pay after testing carried out) plus 1 letter from nhs consultant (with details of appointments hidden), do I legally have to announce to them the actual details of dd’s condition/symptoms?

In terms of medical confidentiality and because Dd doesn’t want them knowing her medical history and personal medical details (whether or not it’s requested)?

A woman isn’t forced to tell an employer she is pregnant, an interviewer isn’t forced to ask about previous medical conditions or if someone is disabled etc. Why should a 16yr old girl have to explain the workings of her insides to school?

A teacher friend told me last week that her school would accept appointment letters and not ask for more info than that.

The school may be looking ahead to the GCSEs and trying to anticipate what may happen - with your daughter’s level of absence there is a high chance she’ll miss an exam. If the school feel they’ll need to apply for special consideration because she misses an exam they would need to have as much evidence as possible that the absence is due to an ongoing, serious health issue.

Why would a letter from a 'professional' be any more truthful than a letter from a parent? Did you not read the rest of my post? Safeguarding no longer permits schools to accept a parents word for medical conditions. The dreadful case of Daniel Pelka is the perfect example of why.

School have no legal right to ask for medical evidence. The BMA have produced a letter stating that they will not provide evidence for schools so in the law the school is incorrect. There are a few Facebook groups that can support you.

If they have seen 3 letters from a consultant, as a parent I would take the view that they've seen sufficient proof that she is actually ill.
I would not indulge any demands for dr certificates. The school doesn't have concerns wrt safeguarding - they know full well that your child is genuinely ill. This is about meeting their paperwork requirements - it doesn't benefit your dd in any way, so why should you jump through hoops for a piece of paper that they want but don't actually need.
So I would say a resounding no to that request.
Your dd has every right to keep her medical information private, if that is what she wants.

She hasn't missed over 20 per cent of school days for these appointments though? You need to explain why she is off each time she has an absence. No need to go into massive detail but they need to know it isn't down to school refusal etc.
Schools are under immense pressure to get students in as close to 100 per cent of the time as they can.

Safeguarding no longer permits schools to accept a parents word for medical conditions.
Well, if there are safeguarding concerns, they can have one of their safeguarding meetings. If a doctor considers it appropriate, they can chose to disclose it at this meeting. If the doctor doesn't feel it appropriate, the doctor can then seek parental consent, the parent can refuse, and the school staff can all get wound up and angry that their authority is being overridden

I would suggest that you tell them to refer you to the Educational Welfare Officer if they have concerns. I expect any EWO would understand your concerns and that your DD has genuine health issues, they may even be able to highlight ways in which the school is failing their responsibilities.

I can't see any of the EWOs i meet accepting a doctored appointment letter and no confirmation of diagnosis.

This all feels very odd.

Do you have a letter from a doctor stating that your DD has been seriously ill? Without one, I can understand why the school have concerns (whether right or not).

I missed huge chunks of school during my GCSEs and A Levels, I’m sure I didn’t give intimate details, but my parents would have told them roughly what was going on so that they were able to care for me once back at school.

Reinette but it wasn’t/isn’t safeguarding. She wasnt refusing to go to school at all. She was genuinely poorly on and off for the whole of autumn/winter term.

wolfie I rang in every day explaining that she was poorly with the same symptoms she had had before and had letters explaining visits for bloods to be taken.

I told school at the meeting I had made sure to book dd out of school for blood tests/consultant appointments either first thing in the morning or from lunch time so as she didn’t miss as much school and the school said I should have taken her later so she was registered as there first thing or to wait until after lunch registration so she was marked as there. I didn’t realise that.

arnold thank you. I will check out the letter. Very helpful.

thelastsoala dd wasn’t seriously ill. She was very poorly sporadically throughout the whole term. Imagine symptoms like ME but also with stomach pain and vomiting/prolonged nausea. These would come and go. Sometimes she was off for one day or sometimes 3. It was random.

I have a school with 500+ students and only about 6 have attendance lower than 80%. It really is unusual. It’s even more unusual to have low attendance for medical reasons with no actual medical reason given!

But i did give her symptoms.
The hospitals only found one specific thing which may have caused her to be ill and that wasn’t the illness itself. I explained this condition to school. I showed them the blood test results with that condition on.

mushroom I understand it’s rare but obviously not impossible. Until her illness she had a really good attendance record throughout primary and secondary. She really isn’t ill very often.

Anyway, I just wondered legally about the medical info and I’ll look at the BMA stuff arnold posted.

tell them to refer you to the EWO then.
People's medical stuff is confidential.

Aha, just found this on the BMA website...

‘It should be noted that GPs do not provide sick notes for schoolchildren. When children are absent from school owing to illness, schools may request a letter from a parent or guardian, and this is no different during an exam period. However, children who have missed exams due to illness are frequently told by schools that a note from a doctor is required; but this cannot be provided by a GP. Aside from the fact that parents/guardians are responsible for excusing their children from school, GPs cannot provide retrospective sickness certification. When a child suffers from a long-term condition, any certification will be provided by the responsible specialist.

GPC has sought and received confirmation from the Office of the Qualifications and Examinations Regulator that Awarding Organisations make no requirement for pupils to obtain a medical certificate in support of their application for special consideration. Students are asked for information in support of their application, but this may take the form of a statement by the school. The Joint Council for Qualifications has confirmed that as far as they are concerned, if a student was absent from an examination as a result of illness and has the support of the school or centre to be absent, special consideration will be granted on that basis. Awarding organisations do not insist that medical proof is provided.’

That's not really relevant though; it's saying you don't need a GP letter for exam consideration if you miss one.

From what you've written, she's missed random days/periods for two separate types of illness, and had a blood test showing an unrelated condition (anaemia?)

You've not shown any explanation to the school, just appointment letters.

I agree with a pp that increased awareness around safeguarding means schools won't just take a parents' word for it that their child is missing school regularly for an illness after a certain amount of time.

Ringing everyday is good. The letters themselves don't explain why she was off. You should write yourself explaining each absence.

After a while of ringing everyday, I also wrote in on their absence reporting page.
Pretty sure due to medical confidentiality, I only officially have to say she is off poorly....even though I always went into much more detail another the symptoms.

When I was teaching we had to have actual written letters. We also had to keep them for quite a long period of time. The school aren't being awkward. They are concerned about your child having such a lot of time away from school.

What do you mean by medical confidentiality? Because it sounds as though you are being awkward and hiding behind it a bit?

The school have to keep her info confidential although could share it to support her - eg
tell a TA who may need to help a child with changing due to continence issues.

Do you mean her right to confidentiality means the school shouldn't know?

I haven’t hidden anything from them at all at any time and of course I know they’re concerned about the time away ill. I didn’t though show them the outcome of dd’s appointments because she didn’t want them to know her medical details. There was no official diagnosis found as to why she was feeling so poorly.

I just meant that officially, surely they don’t have a legal right to make me tell them what is wrong with her.