Allocation of school places, can someone explain this for me!

[bourgeoisfishwife]

I'm in the process of preparing an appeal for Y7 entry in September as we didn't get our first choice school.

I'm aware that at our first choice school and other oversubscribed schools in the city, people were offered places at the, when they had listed them as their second or third choices.

My understanding was that oversubscribed schools would only admit people who've put it as first choice. I don't understand how a school can be oversubscribed and be offering places to people who haven't put it as their first choice?

I also think this is something parents should research before applying, this all seems a bit late to be realising.

PPs are all correct as to how it works.

I understand your frustration though! We have our third choice school. Our first choice school, which we are appealing for, had 182 first preferences for a PAN of 180. Neighbouring schools to our first choice school had 250-300+ first preferences also for a PAN of 180. So therefore it's quite clear that a large proportion of people who have been allocated our first choice school did not have it as their first! And funnily enough, there's over 600 first preferences for our allocated - third choice - school. I'd love to give our place to one of those. It's just down to how the rules are applied and even though it has worked against us on this occasion, it is the fairest way.

We missed out by under 100m in the first round. Whilst it's good for the waiting list - that didn't move last year - it makes no difference to appeals (annoyingly!) as people ten miles further out have the same chance as us now. Fortunately we also have a change in circumstances and a strong reason for social needs (and some academic stuff) to support our appeal. Although our allocated school is seemingly more popular, the other one suits her personality far better.

Good luck with your appeal!

Yes so effectively, the school you really want and have listed 1st May have a place come up but if another family have listed it last and don’t really want it, they’d still be offered it over you if they are further up the criteria (often because they live closer)

put us first to maximise your chances (obviously that was incorrect info)

That is correct info. If you put your top choice at number 2 or 5 or wherever, you could be assigned school number 1 if you meet the criteria even though it's not actually your top choice.

Obviously, though, school allocations are based on clear criteria (like looked after children, siblings or distance from the school) so if you live further away than other applicants, you won't be offered a place.

@criminallyInane

schools regularly lie to parents at open evenings and say 'put us first to guarantee a place'

Really? I've never heard anyone at a school open evening say that in recent years.

Sadly I heard this the first time I went to DD’s school open evening to look around. It was the Headmaster who said it in his talk. So wrong! That was two years ago and luckily the Headmaster changed the year after as not much faith in one that blatantly lies (after all as Head he should at least know basic admission rules imo).

I agree that you need to read all the documentation from the Council about the admissions process very carefully because it does differ between Councils. For instance, if you miss out on your first preference some Councils will automatically put you on a waiting list - mine doesn't and I had to formally ask to be put on the list. The guidance also states that the schools do not know where you have put them on the preference list, obviously that differs too because people on the thread have said their schools do know.

I also got a letter explaining why DD didn't get her first preference (although speaking to the admissions office was more helpful in pinning down the reason which was distance) and that went through the next stages of accepting the place we were given, going on a waiting list, etc.

Although we did accept her second place option, the school have never contacted us to say welcome - I was quite surprised. I am wondering when they will or if I will have to ask them!

We should hear in a few days if she has a place at her first choice or where we are on the waiting list.

Yes, I know someone last year (different school) who got the welcome pack from the school on allocation day!

I'm probably more nervous about the waitlist thing, as our Council just moves you without giving you a choice between the waitlist school or the one you've accepted (I have heard on here from an expert that they shouldn't do that but they do) and at some point, it's going to be better for my rather anxious DD to know where she's going. She does like the waitlist school so it was worth trying. It was very oversubscribed so I'm not holding my breath!

The school has nothing to do with it. The places are sorted by the lea. Put the one you want first as your first choice

What benefit is there to all these headteachers who lie about you needing to put their school first? Assuming they're fully subscribed anyway (which they are or you wouldn't be having the conversation) there's no gain for them whether you put them 1st or 4th.

I guess it makes schools look good if they have a lot of first preference applications, and to some extent it might not be intentional, jut a woeful lack of knowledge when in fact they should have some idea.

In my LEA, I believe our schools were told what order we had placed our preferences at some point

The school may be told what preference they were after places are allocated. If the school is its own admission authority (most secondary schools are) they must not be given that information before places are allocated.