Gifted and talented at a comprehensive

[whataboutbob]

DS has been offered a place at the local comprehensive. He did pass both exams for Sutton grammar, but it wasn’t enough to secure a place. We absolutely do not have the income for an independent. Anyway, I’m getting over the disappointment and now aim to make sure he gets the best education possible at the non selective. There’s something on the school’s site about Gifted and Talented provision, but it sounds a bit guarded “our G and T provision is a work in progress”(something to that effect).
It is a very large boys’ school and I am worried he could get overlooked, under stimulated and end up not reaching his potential . Has anyone else got experience of maximising a very able child’s educational attainment in a non selective? I am thinking of requesting a meeting with the head/ head of year in advance of next September. Thanks for any advice.

Hi Bob

Firstly, don't give up hope that your DS will get his grammar school place. Honestly it could still happen...

Secondly, if it's the comp I think you're talking about I think they do very well by the G&T boys. They did really well in their GCSEs last year and I know the brightest boys are pushed to achieve their potential. Have several friends with DC on the programme and they've all done/are doing very well.

You are right to be thinking ahead but I would still consider keeping an open mind at least for the next month...

Would it not be better to wait to see how your son gets on in his new school before asking to speak to the Head of Year? I'm assuming he has no special needs here. I'm afraid your post is rather coming over as if you feel the school will not be "good enough" for your son (sorry if you're not intending that) and that may be how it comes over to the H of Y as well. I really think it would be better to give the school a chance and then talk to the H of Y if your son does have problems.

Obviously, all schools are different. But a genuine comp will have it's fair share of very bright boys, he'll have a good peer group. DS is at a high achieving comp and they have a "potential high achievers" group which he is in, where they are pushed where necessary, have some dedicated trips and clubs. It's in the schools interest that they perform to the best of their ability, after all.

I've organised a tutor for my dd who seemed to spend the first 2 years of secondary pretty bored and not remotely stretched. The tutor and my dd spend an hour a week laughing and talking about weird geeky science stuff, just whatever takes their fancy. No curriculum, just following up interests. My dd seems to love it and she's now a lot more positive about school.

Hi. I work in a comp and know little about grammar schools. The pupils I work with who are the most academically successful are those are actively involved in their school community. Without being seen as "teacher's pet" they join the school council, help out in the library, run charity events, join clubs, take up keadership roles, are part of a sports team, establish good relationships with staff and fellow students and are up for almost any challenge. They ask for advice about how to further improve their work and do independent study. And every teacher I know is happy to give up a bit of time because we know they are genuinely keen to improve their learning. Basically - help your son to become an independent thinking young person. The desire to achieve his best grades needs to come from him! Good luck- I'm sure he'll be grand whichever school he finds himself attending.

Thanks everyone. Reeling- you’ve been a tower of encouragement and thanks for your positive thinking. You never know re the GS, but I have to assume he’ll be going to Rutlish and make the best of the opportunities there. HPFA, I know there’s a danger of sounding like a school snob.. For background, DS1 is at the comp so I know the school and have some idea of its weaknesses and strengths.it works well for DS1, but DS2 is probably more able and would benefit from being pushed a bit harder. Happy76, thanks for giving the teachers perspective and I should bear in mind your points about pupil involvement. Glad it’s working well for your DS Patricia.

If it’s any help I have 2 boys at Rutlish and they are both doing very well and in G and T. I don’t have any issues with the level of work they’re given in top sets. The ‘work in progress’ reference is probably because the G and T coordinator left but they’ve definitely continued with the sessions. In Y8 there’s a lot of discussion and debate on current affairs,
As a PP said, I would definitely urge you to encourage him to get involved in the extras such as School council, maths challenge etc. and make the most of the opportunities that come up. They have some great school trips, too.
I know who the head of year will be for Y7 and she’s excellent, by the way! If you do have any concerns once he’s started, you’ll find the School responds very quickly.

Aargh! Sorry - I see you already know the school! I should have read more carefully! However, I can vouch for very positive personal experience with the next HOY for Y7 and she definitely does respond very quickly to any emails from parents.

If it helps, I know of a very similar boy (friend of a friend's son) going to Rutlish this september, very bright boy from mediocre state primary whose parents couldn't afford tutoring, narrowly missed out on all the grammars. I am sure there will be a good group of bright kids who will find find each other, it looks like an excellent school.

If he wants results and is willing to work hard, I believe he'll get there.

I know a boy who was on the gifted and talented register, however, he just did what he had to do. Moving forward to A levels, three others behind him in the class are likely to far exceed him result wise and this to my mind is purely down to the fact they really want the results and will work their socks off to get them.

We have two dc on the G&T register at our local comp. We chose the school for its excellent pastoral care and its determination to help each pupil achieve his or her very best. (FWIW dc2 was totally under the radar at primary, secondary recognised their ability within the first term.)

It was an excellent decision. The school stretches them, supports them, and challenges them. As well as sets that accurately reflect abilities (including creating extra sets when necessary) they have after-school G&T sessions that extend them sideways. For example, the focuses in Y10 Humanities G&Ts are currently critical thinking and source analysis.

I entirely agree with the PP who said to get involved in school life. Mine have been involved in School Council, theatricals, technical support, mentoring and local community initiatives. They take music lessons, too.

The school do not let the dc rest on their laurels!

Considering that your son will be alongside many others who passed but didn’t get a place at the Sutton Grammars, and there are many other children who do not take the 11+ but are of ability to pass AND get a place if they had, I don’t think you should worry.

He will be in top sets (extension / accelarated / upper, however they name them) and taught at a fast pace.

Top sets are for bright academic kids.

My oldest is on the gifted scheme - there are Saturday clubs, evening lessons and events and lectures through the year and a week of summer school for him. He loves it. Also both of mine who are at secondary have taken full advantage of the opportunities there - school council, greeting visitors etc, buddying up with yr 7s. At a good school you really do get out what you put in, I think.

Thanks everyone, it’s very helpful to hear from other parents of academically able kids who are being stretched and given the stimulation and extra challenges they need, in a comprehensive. I’ve contacted the school and the year 6 kids will be going there in June to sit some tests which will give the teachers an idea of ability.

My DS did not get into a super selective grammar and went to the local comp. He's about to sit GCSEs and is predicted good results. There are pros and cons to every situation.
First I want to say that the comp teachers do care - a lot. They offer trips for more able students but also extension lessons for more able students at lunchtimes as exams approach.
Other benefits - being at school with siblings, living close to school friends (not miles away), shorter journey to school. Confidence is high as he's regularly at the top end of the classes.
My ds has just been given an offer for a selective 6th form and I think if we had wanted he could have gone to the original grammar for 6th form.

The teachers give a huge amount of time to GCSE study and revision outside normal school hours as well - and that help and advice is for everyone, not just the top achievers. At the end of the day it's up to the students themselves but the support is there.

Hi

So I'm new to this website but really could do with some advice on moving secondary schools.
Son is in year 9 at local secondary school, appears to be doing well but have had concerns since started that he's not being challenged enough. Barely gets any homework and had a problematic year 9 for teachers in sciences and French (wants to take French as an option in year 10). Is a quiet, shy, bright boy and conscientious, just worry he won't achieve full potential.
Had a look round lovely small independent school nearby as changing to another big secondary school would be too daunting for him. The worry is they have already started GCSE work in all subjects this year whereas he has only started maths, science and geography Gcse work in year 9.
Realise it's not an ideal time to move schools- worry it will do more harm than good to move him and unsettle him now (he's not unhappy where he is) with some work to catch up on that he hasn't learnt yet and they have . If leave him where he is though I think I'll spend the next 2 years worrying about the school and whether he'll achieve what he's capable of.
If we leave him where he is thinking of getting tutor in French and sciences to bring him up to speed in those subjects.
Any advise please! Would be welcomed!

Do grammar schools not give a set number of places to the highest performers in that years entrance exam?

Both my DDs went to a bog standard comp. DD1 has an IQ of 166, and had a reading age of 12 at 5.
The school staff were excellent with her - I couldn’t have asked for more dedicated teachers. One teacher, while she was off sick after having chemo for breast cancer, actually had my DD round to her house to coach her for her exam. The other staff made sure DD was given course work at her own pace, years ahead of her classmates, and arranged for her and DD2 to attend different schools and colleges on some weekdays to get the range of subjects they wanted for university entry.
Both DDs got unconditional uni offers, and are now happily working in graduate jobs.
I was a grammar school product, and used to be unimpressed by the poor record of the comps of my own era, but the modern ones seem to be a vast improvement!

@kdjf - can I suggest you will probably get more advice and help if you start a new thread with your question.
It’s a tricky dilemma you’re facing and there will be some knowledgable folk with good advice for you but they won’t see your post in this thread.

So sorry it was posted here in error, I'm new to all this, pls disregard!

Please don’t apologise- I feel awful!!
I just meant that it will get lost in the noise of what the thread was originally about. Whereas a new thread will be much easier to spot and more importantly hopefully you'll get some great advice

My dd is bright , predicted 8 and 9 ' in GCSEs in the local secondary . Does that make her g and t ? No idea .. anyways they have a high achievers programme but she wasn't interested and I didn't make her . It will make zero difference to her results . In my experience they push the bright ones to get the best marks as they bring up the average . He will be fine .