Is it possible to have been offered two different secondary school places?

[Ada23]

Hello, hope anyone with an insight knowledge into the secondary school application process could give me a quick answer:
we have not been allocated a school place for our child (not our first choice, not our second choice, not one which we did not apply for in the bad side of town - nothing; yes, we applied on time, no, we did not move recently, yes, we applied for the two closest school, one of which we are in the catchment area of).
Now my son tells me he overheard a playground conversation, about how three of his classmates have been offered places at two different schools - can someone tell me whether this is possible at all? Will ask around the playground tomorrow, but if this is true is this maladministration and who can I complain to about the admission office?

Any thoughts appreciated, thanks.

Might they have applied to Independent schools too?

firstly, the local authority has to find you a place, so you need to get back to them and ask what is going on.

secondly, it is very likely that they kids in the playground are talking about independant place plus local authority place.

Thanks for the quick replies, much appreciated.
So the consensus is that it should not be possible to hold two non-independent school offers concurrently?
I will ask the kids' mums directly, but am considering what to do with the information in relation to our appeal.

P.S. Just in case you are curious, LEA included a list of schools with availability with the refusal, the closest being some 6 miles by car or 1 1/2 hours by bus, the furthest 30 miles away with a stark warning that if we do not apply for one of those they would possibly be unable to offer us a place at all.

if they offer a place 6 miles away as the only school place for you, theyhave to provide transport.

I am not an expert, but I think they should have offered you a place in a school that has places? Not just say you can apply, but actually offered you a place?

If you are offered ANY place, you should accept it. If you don't the LEA is not obliged to help any further. You accept the place, and then pursue waiting lists and appeals and so on.

I am wondering if you only applied to unrealistic schools?
Sorry, I'm not criticising, just trying to get a full picture

Don't worry, not taking any offence, legitimate question: we applied to the closest school (3miles away), for which we are in the catchment area. However, they rank catchment in 5th place. Above that is children in care, partner schools, feeder schools, siblings, then catchment, then children of staff, then distance. We are in the feeder school, but not partner school.
The other school we applied for is just next door (3.2miles away), but we are not in the catchment area for that one, and that criterion is ranked 2nd by that school (after children in care). Then siblings, then feeder schools (in which we are).
The next school after that is 3.7 miles, and we are not in the catchment or feeder, or anything else. Next one 4.5 miles, not fulfilling any of the criteria either.
So we applied to the two closest ones, where we fit at least some of the admissions criteria. Any four of these schools would be acceptable, we did not apply to No 3 or No 4 simply because we did not seem to fit the criteria at all. Tell me honestly - unrealistic?

I agree, they should have offered a place somewhere, but they did not and have pretty much washed their hands of any responsibility.

Thus again, any thoughts or advice appreciated, as there does not seem to be any advice or even discussion for this situation.

I doubt the children have been offered two places by the council - more likely that they have a state school offer and an independent one or are on a waiting list for another state school.

I know that our council has a second reallocation day at the end of March, yours may do the same and have more of an idea then of the available school places. Can you put yourself on the waiting list for the schools that you did put on your form? There may be some movement.

Our council firmly recommends that you accept a place and go on the waiting list for the school you want (we've done this as we got our second choice, although it's also a good school but further away than our first choice!) because if you reject the place that they have offered, they have fulfilled their obligation and don't need to offer another one. Check this is the case at yours and if it is, I'd accept one of the offered places and then go on the waiting list for others.

The admissions officer should be able to tell you how many people put down your chosen schools as first choice and the last distance admitted which may give you an idea of how likely you'd be to get in.

How many spaces on the application form? Did you fill them?

Ok, so I know a bit about it, but I am not an expert.

As I understand it, you have played it by the book, applied to your closest schools, and have not got a place. The LEA is therefore obliged ot find you a place. They are supposed to do that in the nearest school with a place. That line with a place is the rub, as it can be a school miles away.

You need to do several things.

1. call the LEA and make sure you talk to someone in admissions, and get the name of the person you speak to. Let them know you do not have a school place and want to know why and what the LEA is offering you, because legally they do have to provide a place.

1. find out - you can ask directly - where you would be on the waiting list for schools 1, 2, and 3. Ask specifically to go on the waitig list for each school, and get the name etc of the person who you speak to.

If you are in the top 5 on the waiting list, you may well get a place before september.

1. appeal. you need to get some advice from the appeal experts on here, have alook at a couple of appeal threads, and pm some of the appeal experts (prh is one, I can't remember her full name)

It does seem that the schools admission policies are discriminating against people who live in your local area. I am wondering if there is anything you can do. I vaguely remember something about people who live in an area where they fall out side of all catchments, but can't remember it

If you live near an authority boundary, they could have two offers from two separate authorities.

We used to live near a catholic school and the kids were offered the catholic and local primary place - they usually dropped the primary place and the waiting list were offered a place - could this be the same?

Sue - no they can't.

That used to be the case, but it isn't any more. (saying that, I can only speak for England)

Now, you apply always to the LEA that you LIVE in, regardless of where the school is that you are applying to and regardless of the primary school you go to.

So you can have a school in authority A as school no. 1 and a school in authority B as school no. 2 on your form. Your LEA processes the form in conjucntion with the other authority, You are then offered one place.

You can only apply for a school place through your own council, ^Sue* and they do any necessary co-ordination with neighbouring boroughs. You wouid't hear from both, just from your own (even if the offer is a school outwith their patch).

The only way this can happen is if there is a brand new free school, which in its first year of operation doesn't mesh with the main round.

Green - again, I think this is under previous rules. Now the LEA processes the applications for all primaries, including the faith schools and academies, and you are offered one place.

Thanks for the confirmation.
All good advice:

1. Talked to the school admission officer: she strongly recommended applying to one of the school with availability, 'otherwise you might end up home schooling'
2. Waiting list: place 162 (out of 385) and 92 (out of 150), and that might change as now everyone in the second round of applications will also be considered
3. Preparing the appeal now, collecting info

I also think they are discriminating against our village, as they allowed this black hole to happen when the secondaries around here all turned into Academies and set their own admissions criteria, with no one having us as their feeder school, nor in their catchment (in a meaningful way.
The other thing is that the first three schools have as their feeders schools that take children from a different LEA, i.e. children living far away/ outside of catchment and in a different administrative area have priority as they have attended the accepted feeder school: how is that possible?
The trouble is, what to do with that? If you can remember the case of what happens to people without a catchment area please let me know, I'll need all the help I can get.

SueDunome - no you can't.

The only way I have known people recently hold two offers is when there is a new (usually Free) school opening. Sometimes depending on timing, you can apply to that school outside of the normal admissions process and so get an offer for that school as well as a school through the normal admissions criteria.

The odds are your son misunderstood.
What you need to do is ask to be put on the waiting lists of all schools in your area. Then you need to decide which ones to appeal.
You LA shouldn't have given you a list of places but offered you a place at one of the schools - I think they could be trying to get out of providing transport. Definitely keep all paperwork.

Ask for the last distance admitted for the schools.

Good luck with the appeal OP. Hope you get a suitable school place soon, it can be a nervous time for children to think about changing schools and not knowing which school it will be adds another level of uncertainty to it!

Thank you all. As mentioned, will ask the mums directly and I hope (sincerely) he misunderstood - but seeing as one of his schoolmates was offered a place at the nearest school (he was the only one in that year group), but had it REVOKED a week later (yes, LEA has taken it away due to a clerical error) I would not be surprised if it is true.

Will keep the transport angle in mind, could be quite true, seems like the thing they would do.

Thanks for your support, the school admission officer seems to think this is the normal situation, and after a while you start questioning yourself on whether you are the weird one for thinking it is not.

You LA shouldn't have given you a list of places but offered you a place at one of the schools - I think they could be trying to get out of providing transport. Definitely keep all paperwork.

I really agree with this, and it makes sense over transport.

Just to be clear, if the only school with a place is 6 miles away then THEY MUST provide transport.

I suggest you insist they offer you a place, and even say to the person on the phone, you need to offer me a place, because if I apply for a school far away, then I don't get transport.

I am shocked by the numbers on the waiting list. I wonder if the schools would consider adding a class.

just seen your post about the clerical error, that soudns much more likely, 2 places by accident and now sorted.

In our LEA this year a number got two offers, one from a new free school (as mentioned up thread) and one via the CAF, the reasoning bring it was up in the air at application time if the new school would go ahead. There is then usually a short window for the family to decide between the CAF school or the free school. After the first year the school goes into the same CAF process as other schools. This has been done before with different new schools in our area. So yes two offers can be made for state schools but it is very specific circumstances.

Just to clarify, the child who had the place revoked was a different one to the one who claimed today he had two school places.

Ok, I can see how that situation (new school opening) makes sense, but I can confirm that no new schools have opened within a 20 miles radius, so that won't be it.
Just thinking, would a different situation apply to kids with SEN statements?

Fair Access Protocol.

this is what I was thinking of.
Tiggy is one of the mn admissions gurus, listen to her!

nothing different for SEN, in terms of only getting one place

Oh, tiggytape, that sounds promising, would you know where I can find out more about Fair Access Protocol?
And what about the reasonable distance bit? Is there more information on what is reasonable? I am fairly certain that I can prove that all schools (with current availability) would be more than an hour away by public transport - though it would be different if they would provide a taxi, as someone mentioned they could, but they won't confirm which one it would be until I have a space (my head spins from that logic ;-) ).