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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Gcse language - is this really essential for uni?

45 replies

HeyMacWey · 22/02/2018 17:33

Yes, it's that time of year again!

DS brought his options paperwork home last week and he's really struggling to choose from the limited option groups (three of his favourite subjects are in one box and he can only choose one of these).

He's tempted to drop language and do an arts subject that he really enjoys. He'd still have one additional ebacc subject so six in total.

He's more than likely to end up doing some kind of arts degree or possibly teaching. He has no concrete plans though.

Would it be a big no-no if he dropped language? School are saying he would really have one language and one humanities.

OP posts:
DrMadelineMaxwell · 22/02/2018 19:26

I was very disappointed with how few GCSE choices DD could take when it was time for her to choose.

Here in Wales, you have a huge number of compulsory subjects, which then limits their choices to three that they want to do.

English
Eng Lit
Maths
Numeracy (yes, it's separate)

Welsh (short course)
RE (short course)
PE
Science - all 3
Welsh Bacc - a separate subject to study and do coursework on rather than a recognition that they've done well in a group of subjects.
Certificate of Financial education
Certificate of World of Work

Then they get to choose 3. They can choose science to double up each of the 3 sciences to a 'full' GCSE in each, but can't drop one they don't like. They can choose Welsh or RE in their options, to make those subjects up to a full GCSE too.

BasiliskStare · 22/02/2018 20:09

UCL is ( as far as DS researched) the only University which requires an MFL qualification. However , as PPs have said , a applicant doesn't need it for offer , and classes are given for those who don't have it. I suspect they are not asking for degree type level . they just want a basic grasp of a language. I wouldn't worry about it from a university entrance POV. I am very much of the view that in the main what a GCSE student enjoys will get them the best results & then the next step is the next step ( naive , me ? Grin )

BubblesBuddy · 22/02/2018 23:02

I think it’s a shame we lose sight of a broad education at 13 or 14. Hardly a good education for a post Brexit world when we might actually need better educated people.

The brightest students can usually manage a MFL. Also why are pupils/parents so afraid of hard work? Two arts subjects is manageable at GCSE and even manageable at A level if you have the talent and Work ethos!

pieceofpurplesky · 22/02/2018 23:26

What have school said? Most schools have two paths - ebacc and none ebacc.

DinkyDaisy · 23/02/2018 06:47

My bright child does not want to do MFL. Other subjects he wants to do are ones he prefers and 'good' subjects.
Why should he give up music [for example] for a language?
His choices not been agreed by school yet but we shall see...

Soursprout · 23/02/2018 06:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ethelswith · 23/02/2018 07:06

It's only likely to be a requirement for specified courses ie languages, but if not teaching ab initio then they're more likely to be looking at A level.

How important GCSE results will be in future (since demise if AS) is yet to be seen. Having a language as part of a solid academic core is pretty normal, and just because people recoil from the name EBACC, the concept is relevant here. even in the 1970s, my school (state grammar) insisted on pretty much that (sciences examined differently, but everyone had to do at least one) because they thought universities and employers would take that as a good foundation for everything.

So I would always say that, unless there is an absolutely over-riding reason why not, DC should do a language. GCSE is not a hugely demanding level to reach, and I'm not a fan of early narrowing of curriculum.

(That said, one of my DC did Latin rather than a modern language, but at least there's a language in there somewhere)

Wheresthebeach · 23/02/2018 07:26

At options evening this week the head told all parents that Russel Group universities expect a language and that's why the school made it compulsory. I'm really not sure what to believe anymore.

Drives me bonkers - if something was going to be compulsory I think it should be history because a good understanding of how the world has worked/developed is part of being educated IMO. (and no, I don't think the history of medicine cuts it). I would think that because I did history Grin

My dyslexic DD has to do Spanish. Sure her grades are okay at the moment, but they don't seem to factor in how much extra work it is for her to do.

Qvar · 23/02/2018 07:32

They seem to have a much reduced spectrum as it is without ditching the mfl.

I did science double award,English literature, English language, French, maths, humanities, music, art AND textiles. I feel I got a rounded education and would have been sad to drop two of my art subjects.

Berthatydfil · 23/02/2018 07:34

My dd has received 5 uni offers inc Russell group to do geography without a mfl GCSE.

DinkyDaisy · 23/02/2018 08:33

Yay Bertha- great!
Hope for my ds yet!!

HeyMacWey · 23/02/2018 09:31

That's great news bertha

I do agree with concerns around narrowing the curriculum, but as he's shown no particular interest in languages I'd rather encourage the subjects he genuinely enjoys.

I had to take two languages at gcse but don't think this had any impact on what I studied later on in life, although it did help me learn a further two languages post education.

Both pathways have ebacc subjects on them. School say two additional ebacc is best for uni, but having had a quick look on a number of uni's entry requirements it doesn't feature often.

It's never easy is it?

OP posts:
Iwantacampervan · 23/02/2018 12:49

A slight aside but you do not even need a MFL for some of the language courses at university. My daughter took Latin at GCSE as her language so no experience of an oral - she now has offers from universities (two RG) for Japanese Studies which will involve learning the language/ alphabets and she'll need to be proficient in speaking as she'll have a year in Japan. Only one university she looked at stipulated a language at A level. Another suggested that she didn't do joint Japanese and Korean as she wasn't studying a language at A level but have offered for Japanese.

ChocolateWombat · 23/02/2018 14:54

It is good to have a broad spread of subjects at GCSE. This however, can mean a number of different things. Having to study Eng, Maths and sciences ensures some breadth straight away. Often people are encouraged but not forced to do a language and a humanity.

What would a narrow curriculum look like? Perhaps one where all of the options were practical arts - so music, art, drama, photography. So here there is no humanity or language.

Alternatively, narrow might be all computer based and DT options.

Perhaps is either language or humanity is missing, it's fine, but if both are missing it's worth considering why.

And then there's the thing about showing you are academic at GCSE. Having a good range of academic subjects at GCSE and Hugh grades does show this. Academic children are usually capable of doing a language and a humanity and doing well. If however, they have a good range of academic subjects at high grades, missing a language or a humanity won't make it look non-academic.

What might make it look non-academic - well firstly low grades, so it's important to do things you can do well in. Perhaps if all of the options chosen looked like practical subjects. Nothing wrong with having a practical subject, but perhaps 4 doesn't look academic.

For academic children, I'd generally say, allow yourself one totally free choice regardless of academics if you want to, it won't be a problem if the rest is academic.

And remember that music is highly regarded and could certainly be seen an academic.

gillybeanz · 23/02/2018 15:03

hello again OP.
I have just looked at the boards dd is doing for Eng Lit and Drama and they are quite similar, not sure if yours are the same.

I've compared Cambridge igcse Eng lit with Edexcel Drama and they are quite similar in content, obviously looking for different skills though.
This is good if it's what they enjoy doing.

HeyMacWey · 23/02/2018 17:38

Ooh yes, good idea - I'll check them out.

OP posts:
pipilangstrumpf · 24/02/2018 07:54

I find it a shame that uk pupils can drop all foreign languages at 15!

In most European countries pupils have to take up to foreign languages up to age 18.

pipilangstrumpf · 24/02/2018 07:54

Sorry, up to TWO foreign languages

gillybeanz · 24/02/2018 14:16

I think it's important to have a broad range if the young person doesn't know what they want to do in the future.
If they have their future planned out they should be allowed to take what subjects they want to take.
I even think that if a child wants to do a subject at home that isn't available through school, paying for it themself, they should be able to drop one from school.
My dd is fortunate enough to be able to do this and will do 7/8 at school and one at home.

catslife · 24/02/2018 16:48

If he is interested in a humanities degree perhaps adding another humanities subject at GCSE would be a good idea?
It could be History which is also an EBacc subject or another subject such as RS.

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