Is there any way to give this school the benefit of doubt based on its results?

[AalyaSecura]

I've read a lot about how you can't go too much on ofsted results, attainment scores and progress 8 scores, but I'm struggling to see how my catchment school couldn't be other than a poor school. Would really appreciate some thoughts on whether you'd reach the same conclusion. I have visited, but don't know if my doubts clouded my view, some other parents liked it quite a lot more. I'm trying to work out my next steps - keep fingers crossed for other options that are only maybes? Move? Cash in a pension to pay for secondary?!

Ofsted: inadequate (from last year, was needs improvement before and had been for a while)
Attainment: 48 (slightly up on last year)
Progress 8: -.42 (v similar to last year)
Cohort context: 55% previous high attainers, 35% mid attainers; under 2% EAL, 11% pupil premium.

Would really appreciate some perspectives.

Gosh, they have a lot of high ability.
Do you know what support is going in to help school or how they say they are seeking to improve?
Is their website informative?
Has ofsted been back yet for a monitoring visit?
Maybe make an appointment to speak with someone at the school with lots of questions rather than just a group visit?
A little digging to get the full picture maybe required...

Well - its quite popular to dismiss OFSTED but I would be reading the OFSTED report itself and look at the points the report raises and seeing if they are things that are important to you - or if you think they are things that can change with work from the school or if they are areas that you can compensate for at home even.

The school my child is abourt to attend has lower attainment and progress 8 than that - but is rated Good. So I guess poor data alone doesn't mean a poor OFSTED so there must be something else going on.

I believe SEN can impact on data. I don't fully understand progress 8 in particular, but the local head tried to explain that the government doesn't measure progress for SEN in a fair way. He said that children come into his school at an infant school level of learning but the government says that the lowest they can be is a y4 level of learning and measures how much progress they make from an artificially high level.

Thank you. Some answers - response to dropping to inadequate looks limited from the outside - no change to head teacher, same academy trust in charge. Tone seems slightly dismissive of failings to me, but that's based on very little. I really didn't take to the Head. SEN numbers looks low but not sure what the comparisons are - under 1%.

The impression I have is that it's coasted, with middling results due to its high ability intake, and has come unstuck with progress 8, hence the inadequate rating. Ofsted report was fairly damning about the stuff I care about like leadership and teaching. It has a falling roll, so money must be a problem.

That SEN looks like a low figure so I wouldn't think that was a problem.

What's behaviour like - I always think that's important?

Do you have another school choice that has a better atmosphere and results or do you just have to make the best of it.

Behaviour is meant to be ok, some low level disruption but not much more than that. Absenteeism higher than average, both typical and persistent absent. In terms of the school experience, I don't think it's terrible, kids aren't scared, but pretty bored!

Look at the progress & attainment of the different groups. E.g. At my Carchment school only 50% of high attainers get gcse Grade 5 maths & English.

That does sound low, Alexander! Here for high attainers, attainment 8 is 56, progress 8 -.54. 76% got grade 5 maths and English - ofsted is most damning about sciences and humanities so that's consistent. EBacc at 4/C for high attainers is 38%, though 61% were entered, so a good chunk got a D or below in an EBacc subject.

Thanks all for helping me work this through. I hadn't gone into the data as much as this before, it does help build a picture.

I will have a high attainer, so that's the aspect that is most significant for me.

I guess it's all adding up to a picture of a school that isn't great but not truly terrible. But I'm struggling to work out to what lengths we should go to to avoid it! We have a couple of other possibilities that are better, and that I liked when we visited, but we may not get in living where we are, and there would be longer travel.

The results don't look terrible, progress 8 isn't below the floor standard. That the school is inadequate doesn't appear to be because of its results. You need to read the Ofsted report to find out exactly what they think is going wrong with the school. Going down from requires improvement to inadequate is travel in the wrong direction, schools can bumble along at RI for years so something must be concerning the inspectors.

Thank you noble, it's good to have your perspective. Ofsted summary basically says: low expectations all round - governors, leaders, teachers; poor progress especially most able and disadvantaged pupils, and in the non maths and English subjects; and teachers don't have enough knowledge of what pupils already know, so don't challenge or extend learning. Actually, reading between the lines, it sounds like they were very unimpressed with the governors!

To me it seems like they rest on their laurels b/c the kids coming in already tend to be high achievers. That's would be a historical habit.

So now that's been flagged up & a lot can be expected to change because of the Ofsted rating.

I wouldn't view it as a 'poor' school at all.

Another point: if the kids are mostly high achieving, they will have crazy high baseline and predicted grades. How do you show positive value added for kids predicted A*s (in old grades)? What if that child has a bad day and gets an A? That's value added of -1! It's a ridiculous system...

That could in part explain the progress 8 thing...

Except- I think more credit is given for moves in higher grades than in lower at the moment which would actually put a school with high ability children at an advantage with progress 8...