ISEB PreTest and Dyslexia

[RosesAroundMyDesk]

My child is currently in YR5 and dyslexic. A number of the schools we may apply for have decided to adopt this pre-testing. I have been told there is no accomodation for spld, which given dyslexia often comes with slower processing .... I find surprising. Does anyone who has been through this test (particularly those with children with spld) have any thoughts/views?

Have you read the info on the ISEB Exam Board website?

www.iseb.co.uk/Schools/General-information/Common-Pre-Tests

GL Assessment advises that, due to the standardised and adaptive nature of the tests, extra time may not be considered necessary or helpful for special needs candidates; there is currently no provision for this in the tests

Also, the Pre-Test is only one aspect of the admissions process - the head teacher's report, interview and extra-curricular potential are also important.

I have read this and dont understand how they have come to that conclusion when it is a timed test and some children with Spld have processing difficulties. Appreciate as you say it is only one part of the process but feel as if this is (again) not a level playing field

Its not fair, but it’s the way it is!

None of the GL Assessment tests allow for extra time, and the ISEB test is done my GL.

Try the pretestplus practice test.

Sorry I am just venting, because I do think it isn’t a level field. Thanks for listening 😊

fwiw Roses agree with you. Apparently they say that extra time doesn't help in this type of test but I don't understand how that can be if a child with slower processing will get less questions done in the time! Maybe there's an ed psych out there who can explain why it is the way it is. To say the report etc is taken into account doesn't really help as that's the case for everyone!

I’ve been through this with DS & there are a number of issues.

1. Time is being added to the pre-test by ISEB from next year (or the year after - sorry, I forget).

However - time alone does not equal out all SpLDs and ISEB will be applying JCQ guidelines.

1. ISEB will be allowing readers from next year (or next!). However, if you are applying to multiple schools which use pre-test, the first school (by deadline) will decide which accommodations, modifications, adaptations (apart from JCQ ones) will be accepted. This may cause problems further down the admissions line if another school disagrees or indeed would have accepted other accoms etc...

1. You can only sit pre-test once. Which means if your child is reassessed and has a diagnosis change (either additional or severity level), it won’t have been taken into account.

1. How are the schools interpreting the result scores in regards to the SpLD(s) and related SENDs eg ASD?

1. Are the admissions team qualified to interpret the results?

1. Are learning support involved in the admissions process?

It is a very unfair system. A test is a test. If you sit CE, GCSE etc... or professional exams you are entitled to (by law) reasonable and appropriate accomodations. Why should the admissions (test) process be any different?

OP, is your DC applying for schools with early application (end yr5) deadlines? Even if not I would still advise the same.

Everything needs to be put back on the senior school.

1. Can DC have extra time on pre-test?
2. How are the admissions team going to interpret the scores? Don’t accept any whiffle about ‘no set scores’ , ‘the whole child’ , ‘head’s report’ etc...
3. Are accomodations available for the second round testing?
4. Submit your DC’s Ed Psych/Clinical report to the schools. Let them know what accomodations they currently receive.
5. If your DC makes it through to round 2 of the admissions process and then has to take more maths/Eng/interview tests. How are the school going to measure the overall score given the pre-test may weigh down the overall ‘average’?

OP - if you are going for the early schools - how able (honestly) is your DC? The admissions system is brutal enough without throwing SEN in the mix. These schools have their pick of kids either through feeder preps or serious tutoring (as well as very able ones!).

Trinity - it needs to change. The system isn’t working for bright, able SEND kids. It’s discrimination through the back (admissions) door.

Yes it is GL Assessment, who also create CATS - which are in turn used to diagnose or highlight possible SpLDs. The pre-test is a modified CAT and GL and ISEB have both refused to answer my questions regarding the test and how it has been compiled - whether or not it is a valid or reliable test for kids with SpLDs, ASD etc...

This is a very blunt tool and is used by the senior schools to thin out their applicants. It is wholly for their convenience.

Apologies for the previous mammoth post but I forgot.

When you visit the schools ask to see learning support. We usually had to make a separate appointment on a different day for this. Ask how many DC are accepted with a pre-diagnosed condition and ask (if they’ll give them) what these conditions are.

On our journey through the senior schools open days I’ve visited schools which have had no applicants with pre-existing conditions - how is this possible?
A school which only had 1 dyslexic applicant in a tiny overall number of SEND applicants in a year group.
Admissions staff who claimed DS “would grow out of it” by the time he hit senior school...
Criticisms of DS’s CAT score being too low ie you won’t get in. Without the understanding of why DS has very unstable and choppy CAT scores.

It’s not that I want to advise you to become combatant with the senior schools but I am very tired of the small minded, lazy attitudes of certain schools. I believe that (some) of them still equate SEND with low ability and or they don’t want to invest time or different teaching methods on these kids.

They may shrug their shoulders and say “if only they’d apply”. Whereas I feel a lot of parents self select out of certain schools because of the nature of the pre-test and second round testing.

I felt very ‘over a barrel’ in these meetings. Desperate not to say anything that might jepodise DS’s chances. When in reality these schools need to be asked the difficult questions and held accountable for their answers and actions.

I was really dissapointed with the ISEB pretest and CLSB last year. He has known and well documented SEN which were likely to impact his performance. He only just missed the cut off for the second round. We hoped they would take his SEN into account and allow him to progress - but were pretty much told tough luck and no allowance were made.

He had no problems with more traditional tests and had offers from the 3 other schools he applied for including two highly competitive London Co-Eds. A year on and all is good - he is doing very well at his new school and we view CLSB's inflexibility as a lucky escape. At the time though it was awful as it was our first choice and the pretest results didn't reflect his academic ability.

The pretest is also not helping as so many are sitting it, because it’s easy to then apply to multiple schools and just do one test. We had an email from ISEB saying to date this academic year there had been over 10,000 registrations for the test. Many of those would have been multiples, so one child sitting for 5 or 6 (mainly London or suburbs) schools.

It’s a pain in the backside for schools, if all schools went with one window it would be easier, but I had/have kids with a deadline of end of sept, end of nov, end of jan and end of Feb. We want them to do it as late as possible to be as old and experienced as possible, so this means multiple sittings which is disruptive and labour intensives.

Children in Year 7 sit the same test as children in Year 6, but only the maths is adaptive.

Trinity - Is the yr6 pre-test different from the yr7 one? How did you find that out?

IdaDown thank you for your very useful post

It has confirmed a lot of my suspicions... We are at the stage of going to look at schools recommended by the head. My son has a high IQ, he does have talents but I want him to be somewhere which actually wants him. These assessment days and tests seem to me like discrimination by the back door. If I was to discriminate against people in my job in the way that this seems to operate, I would be in serious trouble.

I am very seriously thinking of trying to look at schools which do not use the ISEB pre-test.... which is a real shame for my son, who with a bit of support could really shine.

I think there may be some truth in thinking it is indicative of an attitude towards Splds. However the online tests also vary in difficulty so it chooses the level of subsequent questions based on whether the previous answer was correct or not, thus weighting the test towards those who have a higher iq than necessarily those who answer the most in the time. Your prep should be able to offer a range of suitable options. Maybe look at both forms of entry. Some do a deferred 13+ taken in y7 which covers a range of papers.

Roses there are some excellent academic schools that don't use the ISEB pretest and also have a track record of excellent learning support and pastoral care. Off the top of my head - for boys/co-ed:
KCS
Dulwich College
Trinity
KGS
Latymer Upper
Brighton College (they use ISEB at 13 but not at 11) - they also have a specialist dyslexia centre

These are all excellent schools and I'm sure there are others that don't pretest. Good luck to your ds!

Thank you - I have heard about Brighton college but not the support at any of the others

But LIZS if you can’t read the question, you can’t answer the question. Similarly, if you have a spectrum or related condition, SpLD, tracking difficulty etc... then misinterpreting, misreading the question will lead to incorrect answers which then puts the kids back down the rung of question difficulty.

These final scores are weighted by difficulty not by an overall number of questions answered.
The selectives and ‘super selectives’ are looking at these top difficulty rated questions. Educational profiling.

Roses - Rugby and Winchester don’t use the pre-test at all.

Place marking as I have exactly the same problem. A year 5 child, very bright, dyslexic with a slow processing speed. It does seem very unfair.

I am seriously thinking about complaining to the ISEB.

I know it’s the same, I am a teacher who administers the test. One test is written per academic year, for anyone to sit in that time in any relevant year group. Results are then age standardised against independent school pupils. Only the maths test is adaptive.

This week I had a year 6 sit it, straight after half term a year 7. The year 6 this time had identical questions and text to the kids who sat it last term, but all different to the previous year.

It may not allow extra time but other access arrangements such as a reader are. See p. 20 www.iseb.co.uk/getmedia/d59f538f-c022-44fe-8671-c97bbc403615/Documentation-CPT-Admin-Guide.pdf.aspx

Thanks LIZS. It strikes me that there is a lack of understanding as to SpLD and their impact with this system

I just saw this thread. I am also concerned about this. My child has slow processing speed and dyslexia. I have no idea how they are supposed to do this test

Hi Meadow, when is your DC sitting pre-test?

Hi @IdaDown

Probably year 7 (this is because we are ruling out schools which have a year 6 pretest.....)

The revised arrangements from September will allow extra time in the ISEB test for those eligible.

@trinity0097 does this need to be applied for with the relevant Ed Psychology report etc submitted?