Why do the amount of GCSE schools allow differ from so widely

[Grrrrrsnarl]

My ds has just chosen his options
The school is above average but on reading other posts on here they are not being offered the same amount of GCSE exams as others.

They take
english literature, language, maths, double science. Which are 5 GCSE (compulsory)

Then 1 gcse in humanities (out of mfl, history or geography) ,. 1 sport (either core pe, sport ocr. Or drama btec)

The 3 options which are a mixture of GCSE or btec courses

So a maximum of 9 GCSE are on offer + a btec drama / sport option

My son who is on course to achieve B grades is doing 8 GCSE and 1 btec and 1 core pe

Is this normal, posts on here are saying 11 GCSE ( my friends dd is doing 11)

Is the school going for quality over quantity? Can't work out why they are so different

I suppose what I'm trying to say is just because a school has dropped MFL and Humanity as compulsory, doesn't mean your child can't take them.

It's just about recognising not all children are going to go to uni, or want to, or like, or are any good at those subjects. So why make them compulsory?

Oblomov, I allowed my DS to drop languages. I guess it may impact later uni choices? But in his case, he has no linguistic ability, he does not enjoy it, and he'd struggle to get a C.

He loves music, plays 3 instruments, so we let him choose that. He also loves science, maths and computing.

The result is that he is a happy y10, at the moment and enjoys school.

If it means he can't go to a "top" university, so be it. They all want well rounded applicants, but what about kids who have a very strong STEM preference/interest but did not do a language, are they really "doomed"? I just find that hard to believe tbh.

Aren't a-levels more important for that, anyway?

I find all this streaming by the back door a bit alarming!

Yes, thank you. Including 10things.
I just don't know. He is pretty bright. And currently does want to go to uni (maybe a top one?) to do genetic engineering -stem cells technology.
But because he hates French so much......

But like you, I guess if any uni doesn't want to take him, because he doesn't have a language ..... then... their loss?

He did Latin at primary and liked it a lot. Which fits in with biology. Maybe I could persuade him to consider that later?

Sorry : I think I misunderstood reinette's post by the way!

If you look at the details of a school on the new league tables there is a section of 'Results by pupil characteristics' including 'prior attainment' and within that it tells you an average of the number of GCSEs entered for the school as a whole and broken down by prior attainment.

My DS is a linguist. I have looked through hundreds of unis to establish any that insist on/ look favourably on MFL GCSE. There was one, so don't panic!!

They can't discriminate against state school students so they can't insist on specific GCSEs in general admission criteria : beyond the core, obviously!

So when I did my GCSEs in 1991, I did 9, and that was absolutely standard. I then went to a top 6th form college (it was in the top 5 in the country) and did 3 A Levels - again - absolutely standard. Not sure where the assumption that 9 GCSEs/3 A levels is a new thing has come from.

IME (as a teacher) the point at which many students were doing 14/15 GCSEs was at the height of "equivalents" - I used to teach a BTEC Level 2 Performing Arts course which counted as 4 GCSEs. The amount of work the students did was more than they would do for GCSE Drama, but not 4x that amount. Perhaps double, but not 4x. If a student was doing that BTEC in Performing Arts plus a similar BTEC in Business Studies/Health & Social Care/Sport, that that's 8 "GCSEs" straight away. Not hard to see how they might end up with 14. Those BTECs disappeared about 5 years ago.

Having seen the "name and shame" articles in the national papers this week about Progress 8, it's hardly surprising that schools are trying to play that system. I used to teach in a school that appears on the list of "worst schools in England" and it's utterly unfair - publishing schools on a list like that based purely on one measure is awful.

9.5 here....5.5 compulsory ( maths, double science , 2x English and half RE) and 4 options (25 to chose from with no restrictions).
Ds really wants to do triple science, geography history and DT. He's in a big comp and top sets for everything apart from English were he's more middling. Will probably do science a levels eventually.... all he knows about future career plans is that he wants to travel!

I had been encouraging him to swap DT with Spanish, however Ive done a bit of research and only UCL likes a MFL at GCSE , and if you don't have one they like you do a language course before/ when you start.

In all honesty the DT department at his school is great and he would really enjoy it- he already does lots of DT type stuff after school and is super enthusiastic. He likes the speaking part of Spanish but the reading and writing..... not so much. Spanish will be more of an uphill struggle I think.

Should I still encourage a MFL do you think?

My thinking was that my MFL GCSE isn't much use to me.... but there are loads on online resources and to honest immersion in the language is a better way to learn it in the future if he wants to travel. BUT I don't want to close any career paths for the future

Do you need 8 GCSE's for Russell Group university's?
My lad will pick his options this year ... But if they are the same as last year it will be ...
Compulsory: English Lit/Lang, Double Science, Maths, French
Then he has to pick History or Geography and then one other.
The thing is, he wants to do Drama which is a BTEC, meaning only 7 GCSE's????
Is this too low?

DS1 only has seven GCSEs and one Level 2 certificate in Latin Language). He got offers from all five universities he applied to.

Posted too soon.
However, none of these were Russell Group universities, even the top ones he applied to were the level below that (Leicester etc)

Maybe the admissions tutors that post on Mumsnet can help here.

There is some truth in top universities only looking at the top 7 or 8 grades. That doesn’t mean it is fine by them to only do 7 or 8 GCSEs.

If you are only doing 7, it’s really only five as it will include 2 science and probably 2 English. Let’s say it is E/M/Sc, à humanity and a tech subject. This is not a broad and balanced curriculum and a 14 year old is being short-changed out of a decent education.

Vixnixtrix1981 The BTEC Drama counts as a GCSE.

The double science award does mean 3 sciences are studied and is timetabled as 2 subjects. It is 2 GCSEs. The English exams are distinct and separate, so they are also 2. However, 7 is light and looks like a reduced curriculum. 8 is the minimum really. GCSEs should, ideally, be broad and not close off possible educational routes. The brightest children do manage a broad curriculum. The ones who might be very good at a few subjects tend to want to drop subjects as soon as possible leaving them with a specialist education very early and in some cases in year 9. Only doing 7 GCSEs over 3 years is too few in my view.

@Piggywaspushed I dont think I explained it too well.

Basically if you are currently in the top sets you do

English Literature
English Language
Maths
MFL
Triple Science
Then you have only 1 choice/option of 1 humanity subject.

A total of 8 GCSEs only and top set students must do the ebac and cannot do BTECs as an option.

If you are in the middle/lower sets you do

English Literature
English Language
Maths
Double science
MFL

Then choose 2 options which include humanities, Art/Technical subjects and BTECs in a variety of vocational subject.

No matter which set you are in you ONLY take 8 subjects to exam level no more. Historically the school have offered 10-12 GCSEs but the new head feels 'less is more'. Less subjects allows more study time which equals higher grades and bigger bonus for him

DD is gutted. She wants to do Art/Design but shes not allowed because shes top set. She has to do the stupid ebac subjects.

There is no requirement to do EBACC at my childrens school thank goodness

Rufus, that's awful.

My DD - top sets all the way - does 2 english, maths and double science [triple not offered, but A-level science results very high as taught from the basis of double].

she then does 2 MFL, 2 Art / Design subjects (Art + Textiles) and History.

DS - also mostly top sets - did the same core subjects, then 2 MFL, History, Philosophy & Ethics + Music.

The narrowness of some of these GCSE menus appals me.

(So both will have EBacc, but the breadth of subjects offered, with 5 full option blocks, allows 2 humanities, 2 MFl, 2 art / design subjects, various computing options, practical subjects like Drama and Music etc etc)

I'm old.
I did O Levels
at a selective private gels school in London
we all did 8 except for the brightest girl (who will get her Nobel Prize soon) who did 9

it did not seem to be the end of the world then
it is not now.

We all did 3 A levels (she did 4 btw)

Reinette I can’t believe that top set aren’t allowed to take creative subjects. That’s absolutely outrageous.

I dont mind cant

Both my boys hated languages

No confidence

reinette actually I didn't read you wrong the first time , it seems. I am back to being gobsmacked again!

The triple science thing is what is filling up all the 'option' spaces, isn't it? I see no need : not all bright students actually like science it's a conspiracy

The thing is, my DC wouldn't have had to do languages. They could have done an extra humanity (DD was considered doing Phil + Ethics or Geography instead of her second language); Business; Computing; DS could have done product Design; either could have done Drama.

They CHOSE to do 2 languages. And that's the point - they could do 3 practical subjects, or none; 2 languages or none; 3 humanities, or none; computing / ICT based stuff, or none; BTECs, or none; 2 DT subjects, or none. Having such limited numbers of such fixed options is AWFUL.