Bullying, when to call police?

[Lovemusic33]

Right, going to try not to put myself so will keep it simple.

Dd1 is 14 and has some disabilities, she attends a MS school and uses a school bus to get there and return. She has been getting some abuse from a older child on the bus, making comments about dd’s disability. I have reported it to the school via email a few days ago but yet again this child shouted abuse at dd so I sent another email. School have now replied saying they will talk to this child today. Dd is petrified that this will just make things worse and now doesn’t want to go on the bus. This child is the ring leader but some other kids are now joining in with her.
The police often go into the school when there has been issues will bullying (police station near school), would you call them and get them to pay this child a little visit? Or do I wait a week and see if this child backs off?

The school have said they are going yo deal with it. I think you have to actually give them a chance to deal with it and follow through school procedures before getting the police involved.
With the best will in the world, police time isn't for 'my child had been bullied at school but i'm going to you because it hasn'r been resolved in 48 hours'.

Forgot to say that this isn’t the first incident, it has been ongoing since dd started school and I have sent various emails.

You need to do more than sending emails. Get copies of the school's bullying, discipline, equality and SEN policies, and go through them in detail to check what bits they are or are not complying with. Ask for an urgent meeting the agenda for which will be solely how they are going to safeguard your child, and again take those policies with you and ask what they are going to do to comply with them. If that doesn't resolve the issue, make a formal complaint, and consider moving your child to a school that is prepared to take bullying seriously.

Thanks Bash , my DF has sent a long email, highlighting the bullying policy etc.., it was only then that school actually replied to my emails. I shall see what happens today as they said they will talk to the child in question.

Dd loves school, she has a small group of close friends and enjoys going so taking her out and moving her would upset her more. The problems are always on the school bus. School do well to protect her whilst she is there, she rarely goes outside at break times, tends to hang around at clubs or in the ICT rooms instead of going outside, the school offer her a lot of support whilst she’s there but as soon as she gets on the bus there are no adults to supervise (other than the driver).

As this has been ongoing I would be asking for a meeting face to face.

I would ask them to interview all children on the bus individually. This might take a couple of days. Presumably there are some nice children who will tell the truth.

I would be asking then that the ring leader child is banned from the bus for 2 or 5 days, and that they are told that any repeat offending then will be banned for the rest of the academic year. Hopefully the parents of said child will find it a pain to find alternative transport so will be cross about the 2/5 day ban and will read the riot act to child as they won't want to transport for the rest of the year. The ban will act as a visible deterrent to other children on the bus too.

Thanks Teen, I found out about the bullying from another child on the bus who had seen it happen, she has been questioned by the head and told them what she had seen. I just hope things don’t get worse for dd after today, this is what happened last time. Dd is quite good at blocking a lot of it out but I know this is upsetting her, she asked me again this morning if I could collect her from school so she doesn’t have to go on the bus, I explained to her that it’s best she goes on the bus or this child will think she’s won.

You need to do more than sending emails.

You need to speak to them, initially by phone, but then asking for a meeting. Email isn't adequate in cases like this.

I think a meeting shows you are serious.
And having clear in your mind what you want (bullying to cease immediately or child(ren) will be banned from bus) means you are less likely to be fobbed off.
Don't go out of meeting without a follow up timescale agreed.

As a teacher/leader in a secondary school, I would say go to the police. If these instances of bullying are occuring outside of the school (i.e. On a public bus) then the school, legally, have no responsibility to deal with it and there is actually very little they can do if it hasn't happened on the School's grounds. Previous posters who have advised you to look at the School's bullying policy etc are suggesting a fruitless task - you would be better off contacting the bus company and asking for driver statements or cctv evidence. The fact the school have offered to speak to the bully is promising (we'd do similar in our school), but I'm suprised they haven't advised you to phone the police. Have there been any instances of bullying within the school? If there has, of course that will likely result in much more intensive action from the school and they would then have a legal obligation to deal with it and follow the policy.

Sadly, parents' expectations of schools are usually too high and unrealistic in circumstances like this. Its the same with cyber bullying outside of school. We get hundreds of calls/complaints from parents who are worried their children are being bullied over Facebook etc. If it's happening at home or outside of the grounds the school is not under any obligation to sort it out - that's the parents job. Most schools probably would do something, but they would be going over and above what they are obliged to do.

I hate bullying - my niece had to move school to avoid it, it's heart breaking to think someone you love is scared for the sick amusement of others. And it's everywhere. On a Sunday night, sometimes I wonder how many hundreds or thousands of kids are worrying about going back to school tomorrow.

I'd see what the school do. I'd be tempted to get on the bus and talk to the little shits myself (tempted, but I wouldn't recommend you do this).

Could she not sit closer to the Driver? Is it just on the bus these bullies get to her, I'm sure they have plenty of other people they bully once in school.

I read it as being a school bus, so not a public service.
If a public service I agree it is more problematic.

My son was being bullied at school, due to his autism he couldn't determine the bullying from any other type of interaction with people. He really struggles to know what is banter and what is bullying - until it escalates and someone is physically hurting him as a result there were periods of time of 3-4 months between school noting incidents because my son didnt report things. He was assaulted 4 times at school, once requiring hospital treatment, the final time was 'assault with a weapon' although the school refused to tell me how they were handling it or what was being done with the bullies simply 'in line with the behaviour policy'.
The police were no use. Two guys came out the third time, essentially explained as it happened in school they had to leave it to the school to handle.
The boy who carried out the last assault then followed up with online threats telling my son to kill himself before he did...police came out again, said little they could do as it's hard to prove that the threats really did come from this boy, it could be someone creating an account in his name but that they would go to the house and talk to the parents. We heard nothing more from them.
I spent my entire weekend constructing a complaint to the school. I could prove the history of incidents, including elements where the bullies had given false statements resulting in my son being suspended (I requested copies of all statements around my sons suspension under the freedom of information act). I could evidence every phone call, email and school visit and the failure of my sons head of house to protect him, I quoted their bullying policy and I gave them some very clear required outcomes (safeguarding plan in place, confirmation of how the assault was being treated and an investigation into the head of houses failures) if I didnt get these or my son was assaulted in their care again I would be taking a civil law suit out against the school and named the staff members who I would be holding responsible. At that point, I finally got a reaction from the school!!
The school confirmed the attack was assault with a weapon, and actually they had followed procedure, the boy was expelled. The head of house went off on long term sick the day after my complaint and has since resigned, my son also now has a safeguarding plan in place with teachers aware of the situation. The school are also seeking mediation between my son and the kids involved in the bullying to teach them about tolerance of people with disabilities and how it can affect their behaviour (like my son saying something insensitive, they get offended and attack him, he's not malicious - just doesn't understand feelings) at the same time they are getting him extra help to teach him about others feelings and learning to pick up on social skills.
I guess what I am trying to say, schools do not want to deal with the problems. You need to put them in a position they cannot ignore, keep your evidence, create a timeline. Do not back down until your daughter is safe and happy.
The police will not help you

The DfE has guidance dated 2014 which spells out ahat Heads can do.

It is the Home to School Travel and Transport Guidance. Look at Paragraph 47. This deals with behaviour and sanctions. It does not matter who provides the transport. Although a school has no legal authority outside the school gates, a Head can exclude pupils for poor behaviour outside school and being on a bus would qualify. Some Local Authorities also withdraw bus passes for children whose behaviour is below that which is acceptable.

Therefore speak to the Local Authoirity transport officers and the Head first. Make an appointment. You could also ask for a taxi for your child or an escort to go on the bus. If they do not act, say you will go to the police. (However I cannot see them being very proactive, sadly).

It is a school bus and not a public bus, there are no cameras on the bus and as far as I’m aware the bus driver is not allowed to step in unless there’s a safety issue (the girl physically assault my daughter).

I will see what happens today when dd returns. I know it’s always going to be a ongoing problem with dd, she is a target for bullies due to he disabilities, she’s also very quirky (she has AS) and she is used to people talking and pointing, she manages to ignore a lot but I feel she shouldn’t have to put up with it, even more so when travelling home from school.

AmI so sorry you went through such a tough time, dd has suffered bullying many times but now she’s getting older it worries me more. She already suffers from anxiety and a fear bullies could tip her over the edge even though at the moment it doesn’t seem to be bothering her too much. Dd is doing really well at school and is coming out to her option year, I really don’t want to have to move her as she loves school and the few friends she has.

My son is year 9 so like you I felt this is the year something has to improve. I've mentally given the school until Easter to get things in place and maintain. There is another school he can do to, who do their options after Easter which is why that is my deadline to keep him there or pull him out.
They were quick to react in light of my complaint but I am keen to see how it continues, this all kicked off the start of December so it is early days

As a teacher/leader in a secondary school, I would say go to the police. If these instances of bullying are occuring outside of the school (i.e. On a public bus) then the school, legally, have no responsibility to deal with it

Yes you do!

And you should.

There must be appropriate standards of behaviour on all school transport. All school transport is on a contract and it does not matter if it’s a standard bus or a Private coach. It’s Home to school transport.

Appropriate behaviour does not include bullying. The Head can, and must, deal with it as he/she has the authority to act in the ways I suggested and the LA could too. The school has a duty to investigate. They should interview your DD and get a full picture of what is happening and interview the other girls. The Head could exclude for a few days for this.

The driver cannot safely intervene but they could provide an escort in addition to the driver by varying the contract. Make it clear that you know what the school can do by reading the DfE Guidance.

The Head who posted is not up to date and is completely wrong. Hopefully not your Head!

Sorry - just noticed investigation by school has started.

Had similar to you
Yr 10 DD,and what turned out to be 10 bullies - comments on social media and in school about her appearance, medical stuff etc
Phoned Police for advice and they took it v seriously - treated it as Hate Crime. Came to house, suggested DD post on social media they were here and watched for responses ( within minutes!)
Long story short, we only had physical proof of 2/10, both young people were visited at home (no warning), School informed, and given a type of caution ( it's quite new and to do with hate crime ) which means if they do anything else the consequences will be v serious. The caution has a specific name. Group of 10 v powerful in school and it has stopped overnight. The 2 that were visited - apparently parents horrified and no idea
There are new laws to do with hate crime and also social media
We were very surprised and thrilled how responsive the Police were - DD now Yr 11 and not another issue as word got around!
DD initially was of option nothing could stop them/ School couldn't do anything but Police were great
Worth a call saying you want to report a hate crime - it was my daughters disability that seemed to trigger the response rather than the incident
Good Luck

Thank you everyone, my DF phoned the school yesterday and threatened to report to the police for hate crime if they didn’t deal with it right away. They have spoken to the ring leader and are going to speak to a couple others who were involved. The head got onto the bus last night to reassure my dd and to warn the kids that bullying isn’t acceptable at school or on the bus home. Dd said the girl looked angry that she had been pulled up on it. Dd sat away from her on the way home. The head will continue to talk to the others today and has assured me that it won’t be happening again.

Glad action is being taken but I think you should actually get an appointment with the head for an action plan

Do chase the school until it is resolved. Meeting face to face; send a letter to her tutor and copy the Head of Year, whoever is needede. Emails sometimes get ignored in my opinion but if you post a letter they will need to respond to you, at least that's my experience.

Glad your DF threatened them but a shame that this needed to happen in order for them to take action.

Schools and the government need to do more about educating children reg bullying, hate crime, social media, drugs, etc. This is something that needs to be part of the curriculum now with all the access to technology and information that children have but are not matuerd enough to manage.