11+ Results - Why Don't Independent Schools Release Scores?

[Lentils]

Just wondering why it is that independents don't ever release the results of your child's exams? Anyone know? Or so some give you results and some don't?

Can you imagine the outcry! Pfb scored 2 marks more than friend in maths but friend got offered a place and he didn't! At least this way there is more than tutoring used to differentiate candidates.

nostraightedges exactly the same here

Absolutely agree with hogfather here. Most selective independent schools, away from the madness of London, the 'superselectives' and the high end public schools look for general ability but more importantly the potential to do well, especially if child has come from a state school background. My son had the chance to do a year 5 pre test at an HMC school and they gave fantastic feedback on how he did- not pure number marks but whether expected level was achieved, exceeded or not quite met. So useful in preparation for the 11+. And I didn't care a jot about his exact results per paper for the 11+ when the letter came through saying he'd passed! Agree with others that it would just lead to too much competitive grief between parents.

But to be honest was surprised at the "quality" of students at the school. They don't seem that massively brighter than the top set of her state primary.

One of twins goes to a superselective and scored highly in 11 plus (we know the scores here) his equal ability twin (and both of them were top set primary) did not perform as well and sits in the top sets at comp. On another day he could be at that same grammar. Point is, selection at this age - the sitting of a test - does not soley determine ability or potential. I've seen many go to selective schools on good tutoring alone.

There will always be children at comps who are as bright as those at grammars/independents. Thank God, because we cannot assume that selective schools have the best of the best. Not all children will opt to sit entrance exams either.

Grades A, B or C for schools like Wycombe Abbey/Downe House re: CE at 11. Means they don’t get tied down to exam specifics & can offer on more of a broad impression. Allows flexibility. They look at quite a lot re: suitability.

Our prep advised parents where to apply. Very many do that and it is part of the service. If you wanted Wycombe Abbey, but were not good enough, that was up to you, but the school would not have been bouncing with joy and would have steered the parent elsewhere if possible. Prep Schools like to tell parents that pupils got their first preference school. This is the measure of their success, not marks in exams. CE/11 plus entrants into the right schools (and getting scholarships!).

Of course private school children are not all clever. Prep schools are not all selective. Some positively attract the children who are less bright and need much more help. Parents believe they will not thrive at a state school and private schools are more nurturing. They may not be better at teaching though.

My DD2 went to a non selective prep but many girls went on to CLC and Wycombe Abbey. The parents who wanted this route for their girls selected that school. State school children can access those schools too, but the path is not mapped out for you. However, many state school parents are not going to jump through those hoops and take the local school because that is what they want for their children.

IME, with the exception of London where demand outstrips supply, the main entrance criterion is whether the school thinks the parents can and will pay for the full seven years.

@cuttingcarbonemissions hah - friend has a theory that even selective London schools choose on that criteria! They have a big enough paying pool to do that - which may be why a head was in the papers a while back moaning how privates were soon going to be the preserve of oligarchs with no "normal" people. And reading the fine print on schools we applied to - say your family goes through a redundancy etc, there is no applying for bursaries once you start at any of them.

Normally you can ask for, and get, financial help mid way through if you fall on hard times. Not if you have a £ millions property though. They just do not advertise this fact!

lol at 'quality of students at the school', is OP's DD not of the same quality then?

@PeaceandQuiete call me naive - I'll tell you what shocked me - finding out that classmates at her London super selective were STILL getting tutored! And I also assumed most would just do well with high marks throughout the year - not so!

Lentils, some kids will always be tutored, especially in London. One (very nice ) Russian mum once moaned to me about how the school did not tell you class positions in exams, but simply gave an achievement grade (effectively: excellent, good, satisfactory, and needs improvement). We drilled down a little and realised that class position matters in Russia. She wanted to know the subjects in which her son was not coming top of the year, so she could focus efforts there. (He was already doing a lot!) Unfortunately US Universities ask schools to say where applicants sit in the year group, and so there can be mammoth pressure for kids wanting the US to excel all the way through. And a bit of a false perception by other DC that they are not particularly bright. DS was astonished to come top in a couple of maths papers at University. He had never been within striking distance of a top set at school.

And obviously those that were tutored to get into a school may need tutoring to keep up. Some boys had a major slump in the first term exams at DS' very academic school. They were back on track by the summer. My guess is that the tutors were back.

nostraightedges - yes, I probably should have been more specific that the state 11+ system differs by county.

I think the main reason they don't give the results, is because it would generate huge aggro and criticism of their choices about who to take - and they want to remain independent and free to take whoever they please, without having to justify it to anyone.

If results were published, parents would complain if a lower scoring child got a place, but their didn't. It would also open the door to parents demanding to see the scripts and asking for re-marks and challenging the marking and offers. It would take up loads of time and energy for the school and challenge the flexibility they have to not just take exam results into account when deciding who to offer to. State Grammars have to purely allocate on exam performance - either purely by score for super selectives, or by a minimum score and geography too, or by a minimum score plus music or other aptitude. They cannot decide not to have someone because they didn't think their behaviour looked good at interview, or because their primary school reference revealed things the secondary wished to avoid. Independents want the greater info they can gather and to take it into account, but if results are released to parents, it muddies the water, becaue parents would only see the results aspect of the process and not the other aspects which they couldn't be party to, but fail to fully grasp that results alone were not the determinant of an offer.

Most schools say in their terms and conditions for applicants that results will not be released and scripts not made available. It is very clear.

Another good reason not to release results is that all pupils start the school on an equal footing - there is no sense for anyone of being the lowest scorer or the highest scorer, with the problems that would bring. It's why many state grammars only release actual scores to those who failed to get an offer, not to those who did.

Finally, independent secondaries often DO release results to Prep schools on the strict u distancing these aren't given to parents. This is to foster good relations with the the Preps and is a two way street. The secondaries want accurate references from the Preps and for the Preps to have a realistic understanding of the standard required so they can advise parents accurately about whether to apply or not - Preps want success, not failure. Seeing the results allows the Preps to recognise the standard required in different aspects, based on the results and their knowledge of the kids' ability. They can then more accurately advise parents toward the right level of school for their child, and also ensure they get a closer to 100% success rate. Sometimes Prep schools will also intervene over rejections and make a case for a borderline case - and secondary heads might well listen, as lomg as Prep Heads don't do it too much. The thing is, a Prep Head can do these things and use the data in a way a parent can't. A parent will always only be thinking of their individual child, but a Prep Head sees that child as part of a bigger picture of both the he lresent and future of many children, so that's why the information is given to them. There is recognsition of the Preps and Secondaries working together for each other's mutual benefit.

I think it's right that the results aren't released to parents.