DD told ‘underachieving’

[Verbena37]

Hi,
Just got an email from school following dd getting a Level 6 for chemistry. It states that my dd must attend an afterschool revision session (and then one every other week after that) as her level 6 is classed as underachieving, compared to her target grade of Level 9.

Firstly, her target grade of Level 9, I explained to the teacher, didn’t really bother us...in that all of her target grades are 8 or 9 (mostly 9) and they were given those grades in year 9/10 based on SATS.

So a Level 6 is a B in old money....how is that underachieving??

Dd has been suffering with a long term unknown illness since September, which school know about and unless dd specifically states that she wants to go to the sessions, I don’t feel like pushing her. She is stressed enough and finding each day hard due to being poorly.

I need addition, the chemistry teacher (who is also somehow head of science) checks the answers with the 2 brightest kids in the class and regularly gets information incorrect! DD corrected him the other day on something even I knew the answer to and I’m rubbish at chemistry.

I’m not sure how him teaching even more rubbish lessons, is going to help anymore than her revision guides will.

The email stated....
‘These sessions are mandatory and should be seen as a priority by DD’

How can afterschool revision session start be mandatory....they’re from 3:30-5.

Perhaps science was optional then because my children’s primary school did not do science SATS.

Aha, just looked a tad another site and it says that for certain years science SATS were only done at sample schools

I had a meeting this week with SMT to discuss how to support some SEN pupils in KS3 and all the teachers there were focussed on the emotional wellbeing of the kids. Several of us made the point very strongly that over inflated targets mean that these children are constantly being told they are are failing which is so counter productive. I’ve been in teaching nearly 20 years and have no aspirations to leave the classroom and climb into management so I am happy to say what I think, but it is really hard for younger more career minded staff to kick back against some of the current data based nonsense. I imagine in your DD’s case they have some sort of higher attainment target the teachers are being told to chase . I would use one of the polite versions of the letter suggested and hold your ground. My own daughter is year 8 and when I got her report last term I said to her ‘ I’m really sorry but I’m going to ignore all these numbers as I know how much nonsense it is and just focus on the comments.’

Ridiculous system of predicting grades based on SATS when secondary school subjects are so different and while some are all rounders some kids have a flair for some subjects and not others.

👏 Cath. Great post.

I also say to my DDs that the part of the report I'm most interested in is the effort column.

You sound quite angry about the 'underachieving' label. I don't think you need to be. She is a high-scorer - as you noted. It just means that they think she is capable of more. (In ideal conditions - she probably is - but as you pointed out, she is unwell and feeling stressed.)

It is strange to be angry about the offer of extra lessons though.

Suppose you took your car in for an MOT and the mechanic noticed that there were a few things that would make it run better. You'd probably be quite pleased if she offered to spend a few hours of her time on this - for free. Or if you went to the dentist for a check-up and she thought she could whiten your teeth in a few extra hours of her time after she finished work... you'd probably post here in delight!

Progress 8 is having a disastrous effect on the mental wellbeing of students and teachers. It is a ludicrous way of piling pressure on for no good reason. OP, don’t send your daughter to these sessions. I wish parents would refuse to send students to our mandatory after school sessions because I don’t want to run them any more than students want to attend. After a full day of studying, how much can they really take in straight after school in a session delivered by an exhausted and demoralised teacher? It’s yet another pointless box-ticking exercise in futility.

And far better for the children to come out with a level 6 and their health intact than a level 9 achieved at the cost of crippling anxiety aged 16. The stress I see in students has exploded in the past couple of years and it’s a scandal.

pengggwn those were the results for October’s report, not for her mocks she has just received marks for.

cath great post. However, our school don’t give report comments....only numbers! I wish there were comments.

goodas I’m not angry....I suggested she does do the sessions. I knew she would probably refuse, owing to how she feels about the less than great teaching and also down to how tired she still gets after a day at school. I was annoyed and trying to focus my post about the mandatory revision sessions part. That’s what I didn’t understand. How they can say they’re mandatory.

Perhaps they're mandatory if you want triple science entry instead of dual entry? Does she need individual sciences for A level study?

She plans to do biology and psychology for A Level and one other (doesn’t want to stay at this 6th form unless she really has to. Defo not physics and defo not chemistry....because of the teachers.

Schools saying that these extra lessons are mandatory puts additional pressure on students that is completely unnecessary. This is especially true if your DD feels the teaching is below par anyhow. Unless the extra lesson is going to be run by another teacher it seems completely pointless.

You need to consider -would your DD like to improve her grade? Do you (both) think that the revision session would help?
I'm really grateful for the 3 (soon to be 4) extra weekly sessions my son's school is offering GCSE pupils. But they are with decent teachers so they are a good use of his time. Also, he doesn't have the self discipline to get on with things on his own.
If the sessions offered to DD aren't going to be good quality, I just wouldn't get her to go. I wouldn't be offended by your perception of their perception of her target grades, or irked by an offer of extra help which is probably available for all students.

Its difficult especially if your DD is unwell...Sounds odd that the sessions are 1.5 hours too ?
My DD's school has offered the whole cohort additional Maths sessions after school divided into what their anticipated grades will be - allot of the girls are expected to get 8/9's but most of them have gone along to the sessions because in many respects - it takes some pressure off them and guides their revision program.
Personally I would try and support the additional sessions but if your happy with your DD's grade then I think that's your decision - just a shame not to take advantage of the offer.

was about to start a similar thread. Y7 Ds1 is now under-achieving (well below expected) for half his subjects. His targets have been set according to his SAT/CAT scores which to be fair were very high. So now, every time he scores less than a 9 he's failing. And whereas I can just about see how these scores might relate to eventual maths/science grades, the link to other subjects is far more tenuous. The result is his confidence in any subject that's not very mainstream academic - art, music, drama, food tech - is now at zero. The fact he's never studied these things before (well a bit of art at primary) matters not - he has to go from zero to perfect or he's failing.

Same for my son. Predicted 9s in everything based on 120 SATs.

I just explain to my dd that the targets are based on maths and eng sats and she can't be good at everything. I put more emphasis on the attitude to learning grades. She seems fine with it.

Forget the thing about how the targets are set and forget your annoyance about the letter saying the sessions are mandatory. These are red herrings.

Consider this - your DD is clearly judged to be bright and capable of top grades in the subject (which is also related to the A Level subjects she would like to do). No one is saying a B grade is bad. Lots of people seem to think the school is saying this. What they are saying is she capable of much more.

Health issues aside, do you and does DD want to achieve her very best, or will a B satisfy you as 'good enough' if she was capable of a 9 or A*? That's the question. When she comes to do a UCAS application for uni and has to put down a 6 instead of a 9, which might alter where she can realistically apply, will she feel a bit disappointed?

OPs reaction seems to be (health aside) all about annoyance at school, rather than seeing this as an opportunity. DD doesn't sound very mature about it all, so is the OPs reaction partly because she knows it will be a struggle to get DD to go.

Anyway, if health issues really mean that the sessions will be too much, then fair enough - the OP doesn't need to moan about the mandatory nature or argue about the B and if it is underachievement - simply to thank them for the offer but state it won't be possible because of health currently. Would be good to say that if health improves, Op would like to think DD will take up the offer. No need at all to get shirty and rude and defensive. The school have made an offer of extra help which many will pay €€ for and be desperate to get, but here is a parent who is annoyed by it - to me, this shows the difference between supportive parents and those who can actually be a hinderance - the difference is stark and may well comtribute to explaining why lots of bright kids underperform. We hear all the time about theoretical unsupportive is parents who won't work with the school, and this seems a real example to me.

If there are genuine health issues, it just won't be possible. However the OP isn't here saying 'what a shame DD won't be able to take up this helpful provision because of health issues'.

Op - only you know your Dds health issues. Are you using these as an excuse for not pushing her to attend, becaue the letter has annoyed you and you can't see the point? I just ask and it's worth considering. Of course, if having the extra time at school really isn't possible, then fair enough and of course health comes first.....but that wasn't really your key argument against it all.

No one is saying a B grade is bad. Lots of people seem to think the school is saying this. What they are saying is she capable of much more.

I think by using the term underachieving perhaps this could be interpreted as them saying the OPs DD is failing or not good enough or bad. If a child is doing their very best and/ or coping with health or other issues then a B for them might be fantastic under the circumstances. Is it a fair reflection of ability if students have to be coached so much outside school and normal revision? Would it really have a devastating impact if she got a 6 in one subject?

What I would take from it as a teacher is:
^Child A has a target grade of an 8 based on their ks2 performance data. It doesn't matter what I think personally about the system of tracking progress and target grades because it is what it is and Progress 8 means that if a target 8 student gets a 7 then that's a minus number for the class (and in turn my performance management because of the way performamce related pay has become a thing). I'm also under huge amounts of pressure from SLT to document every last bit of intervention that I've done for anyonr who is under achieving. Underachieving is not being on target so my grade 5 students getting 5s is fine, but an 8 student getting a 7 isn't. I'm already doing what I can in class and still thry want more. I've also probably jad calls from parents wanting to know what I'm doing to support revision. I'm already teaching tje course the best I can. I know I'll run booster classes after school. I'll pick one night a week and offer it. I'm not messing on beimg told I need 4 nighys because people have x y z on. Right, that's sorted. Now I need to make sure parents are aware because their backing makes a massive difference so I'll send a letter. I'll word it strongly so it's clear and that way I can avoid getting to March and someone saying 'my DC isn't doing well. You have done anything and she can't do your club because on a Thursday she goes to Saraj's house before dance'.

I think the tone of the original letter from the teacher was off, but can see why they might have done it that way.
If a parent wanted to talk to me about revision, I'd much rather them call for a chat than write me an arsey letter.

It would be a shame if she got a 6 because she and her parents felt irritated about help to achieve her potential had been offered and refused it, unless there were compelling reasons to refuse.

Again, of course a B is a good grade. For many it would be their dream come true. Whether it's good for an individual depends on their potential. Some children and parents and other posters it seems, are willing to settle and sent that interested in achieving their full potential. There simply seems to be a lack of aspiration.

If the health issues are really serious, then in the end, a B in the circumstances might be a great achievement. Only the Op knows what the health issues are and what they allow and prevent DD from doing.

The thing is, OP didn't come in this thread to say how sad she was that DD couldn't go to the extra sessions because of health issues. She came on to moan about the school with its target setting and mandatory extra sessions - that was the angle on it all. It wasn't about aspiring for DD to achieve her best, but annoyance at the school.

And lots of people seem to be like this. Opportunities are available (and they moan if the opportunities aren't made available) but actually, they don't really want them. Instead they find things to be overly sensitive about and to be offended by, to justify not taking opportunities.

Underachievement is a relative thing, For one person a B grade is a fantastic achievement and for another who can achieve an A*, it really would be an underachievement. That's not to say it would be a disaster or life ruining, but we should be willing to recognise that if someone is capable of doing fantastically well and then perform very averagely, for them it is underperformance. Schools have a duty of care to give their kids the chance to achieve their best, not just what might be a good achievement for other kids. Yes, the whole target thing is flawed, but the principle of giving the brightest the opportunities to get the top grades is a good one.

Parents can get overly obsessed about achievement and push their kids too hard. That clearly is an issue for some families. However a lack of ambition is also a problem. Isn't there a happy medium - to have aspirations for our children to achieve their best, without pressurising them and helping them take all the opportunities available to achieve that best, rather than settling for the lowest common denominator.

There isn't a single bar of "achieving" for all students. GCSE performance in Science shows largely the same link with KS2 results as performance in Maths and English. A B grade for a student who achieved L6 at KS2 would mean they were achieving considerably below the average achievement for students with the same KS2 level. There is debate to be had around target grades certainly, but a school providing opportunity for extra support in this instance deserves a polite conversation regarding her health. Not least because it is likely the HoD has almost certainly been compelled to provide it by SLT, and absolutely certainly will be held to account for your daughter's results.

@MaisyPops Is performance related pay based on final gcse results only, or results in exams throughout the year in all year groups? (Dd has three sets of exams per year.) Dd hasn't taken her options yet but never meets her target in any creative subjects or PE. Not through lack of trying, they just aren't her strength and she will drop them at options. I do feel a bit guilty if it affects teacher pay though. I wish it didn't!

it has already been stated the expectations for students to achieve 9s across the board are very low. That is reserved for the highest achievers in the country. To give targets of all 9s is ridiculous and likely unattainable.

however, you dont seem to understand what ‘underachieving’ means, op. It means they are below their target. So yes your dd is underachieving across the board. But you feel that is down to a short illness and she is working consistently at school and at home to rectify this. So hopefully back on track. I would ensure she is working every evening for the necessary hours and at the weekend, as the gcses are a race and she is competing against students who were not ill and did not fall behind.

Mock exams are also a good indicatior, not only of how much effective revision students are doing at home, but also how they work in timed, exam conditions.

The new gcses are difficult. Significantly more so that the previous gcses. If I had a child sitting their gcses this year i would be throwing all resources, after school revisions sessions, private tutors i could at them.

C0unt for your DC sake I'm soo glad that they are not doing GCSE's this year......no wonder mental health issues in teenagers is rising so rapidly!