Guess whether teacher recruitment targets were met this year

[noblegiraffe]

Of course not.

Guess what the DfE had to say about it.

School standards minister Nick Gibb said: “There are now a record number of teachers in our schools – 15,500 more than in 2010 – and the fact that more than 32,000 new trainee teachers have been recruited in a competitive labour market, with historic low unemployment rates and a growing economy, shows that the profession continues to be an attractive career."

It's a good thing that schools are overrun with Physics and Computing teachers, otherwise the fact that they only recruited 2/3 of the numbers they were looking for would be really worrying.

Also, Design and Technology?! So much for schools being all about STEM these days. Not if they can't get the teachers!

www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-news/teacher-training-targets-missed-all-secondary-subjects-except-history

I think there’s the perception that primary teaching is “easier”, when in reality it’s just different... but I think more people are happy to consider primary teaching for that reason. I’m not a teacher myself but numerous teachers in the family, both primary and secondary, including a DC currently doing PGDE in a shortage Stem subject. No £25k bursery for him, but he’s taking some sort of deal to be placed in a random school for reg year (likely to be a remote Scottish island or highland area).

I read that lots of women who have young DCs decide to go into primary as they think they understand those children better.

I do personally think the perception 9truth?) that behaviour standards have slipped must put off lots of people from entering secondary.

Is it maybe also to do with the BEd route? Are lots of those primary teachers actually coming via 4 year degrees? Many of the PE teachers are.

History is the hard one to explain. Perhaps it suggests there is very little else one can do with a history degree?!

I don't want to mention Finland again - but the government really ought to consider why there is never a teacher shortage there! Clue :It's not about pay.

I don't think primary teaching is oversubscribed these days either, although not as bad as secondary. The schools I have worked in the past few years and my children's school have all struggled recruiting and especially holding on to new teachers. I think a lot of people think primary teaching will be fun and creative and then find themselves getting bogged down in data and targets.

I choose secondary because I wanted to teach my degree subject but many were surprised I hadn’t chosen primary, most seemed to think primary would be easier in particular behaviour so I guess this is how many perceive it.

Whenever I tell people I teach secondary there's always a bit of a flinch (then I tell them I teach maths....). I couldn't teach primary though!

Interesting:

www.teachertoolkit.co.uk/2017/11/26/wrong-answer/?utm_content=buffer0ff48&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

I work in a job looking where part of the role is to research the potential for new or current educational courses.

The teacher training scheme(s) have lots of people interested - why wouldn't they be? It has for example been made quite financially attractive to retrain as a teacher.
The problem is lots of people drop out in training or shortly after qualifying or withdraw their applications after talking to /observing staff already working in
schools, when it becomes clear what they would be taking on.

The recruitment crisis wont be solved by making it easier to train as a teacher. We need to make it more sustainable to actually be a teacher.
I am not a teacher but my guess is that they are like anyone else in any job. They need

-Good and relevant training.

• Consistent support (not just in a few rare schools where the senior team is supportive) particularly when new to the job.

• Respect as experts in education in their field.

-Enough autonomy and stability in the goals they are given to have a chance of meeting those goals.

-Reasonable levels of accountability (note 'reasonable'. It is not reasonable to expect every child in every situation to make the same amount of progress based in an arbitrary thing like being the same age)

• Enough non-contact time each week/day to adequately prepare/mark/do admin.( Wouldn't be a problem if we had enough teachers)

• Support and respect from the majority of the parents they deal with.

On the last point - There will always be some disagreements/problems between parents and teachers but if parents generally started with the assumption the teacher has the best interests of the child at heart that would help I think. It may not ALWAYS be true as teachers are human but I think is is true the vast majority of the time

I am sure there is more but that is just off the top of my head.

Not sure what happened to my paragraphs there!

Blooming phone

How many people have decided against training to teach after asking on here whether it's a good idea?
I've also seen teaching ads on Facebook where the comments are similar 'don't do it'. That really can't help.

But noble if the job was more sustainable or more conducive to a functional home life then fewer people would be telling others not to join.

There’s lots I love about my job and it’s all in the classroom or with the kids in after school activities (which I don’t have the time to do anymore).

All the things I hate and that are destroying me are bureaurocratic nonsense that could easily go away. The current rhetoric around teaching and education is poisonous and it drips down from the top: the government, OFSTED, heads, SLT and (some) HoDs. There’s a culture of fear that’s not conducive to a healthy or successful work environment.

My head reminded us last week (after the whole staff Christmas party had been cancelled) that it was along term so we’d better put some effort into our marking and being positive with the kids! It is a shame he doesn’t feel the need to reward his staff or be positive with them.

I wonder how many of those recruits will stick it out and how many will actually go on to teach?
Anecdotally my DD started teacher training in September on one of those bursaries in a shortage subject. She always wanted to teach and had done loads of work experience in several different schools. Of 15 who started on the same SCITT, five have left already. Of the remaining ten DD and at least three others have now decided that teaching is not for them and they will stick out the year and get the PGCE but then look for other careers.

I do think the bursary should be dependent upon teaching for 3 years say, otherwise it is a total waste of money. Taking the money and running feels fraudulent to me and I couldn’t morally do it. Clearly some do stick it out or there would be no NQTs at all!

There is often a top heavy management in schools and poor quality management too. Most teachers who climb up the management ladder have never had to consider their skills in managing others.

Whatever the outcome, children are being denied a good education and being taught by good enthusiastic teachers which is not a good thing for this country. However when teaching was considered to be well paid and teachers actually took the long holidays and had those fantastic pensions (they are still great by the way) was the quality of teaching any better? Not around me it wasn’t!

I want to know where all these History teachers are.

I tried to hire one last year and did so on my fourth attempt.

My school's lovely so who knows how not so pleasant schools are faring.

we had a trainee the other year who was in receipt of the £25,000 tax free bursary; she made it very clear she was there for this money....but as she was in our school training we had to give up our time etc in order to mentor her to try and help her despite her lack of wanting to learn/train/progress

The 3 year idea is something that should be considered; but this won't help with overall retention

BumblingBovine49 I think you've hit the nail on the head there. Could you send your thoughts to the Education Minister please ?

Nanny No criticising 'talking down the profession' here. People should be free to tell it how it is and give honest advice to others. But the DfE will definitely struggle to recruit while the current situation is so awful.

They're trying to fill a leaking bucket, and the bucket is also on fire.

The Maths scholarship is being paid in phases from 2018, presumably to address the retention problem.
It's not the answer though. Those doing it just for the bursary are a minority, DD and the others she knows were all enthusiastic recruits to teaching. It's just that 3 months in they have realised that all the warnings about excessive hours, pointless box ticking and prescriptive management were true.
The majority of drop outs were older career changers. Perhaps they have more to compare with than new graduates.

.One problem is you get paid more to train as a teacher (in STEM subjects) than you do to work as one at the start of your career.

Languages also get the full £25K tax free bursary. You can also get a student loan to pay the fees, which, if you are going to be a teacher you will never pay back.

Don't vote for Conservatives. Even if they lower your taxes. They are ruining state education. And they tell untruths!

In what grad job with a £25,000 gift do you not have to work very hard and work long hours? Just ask around. There are few 9-5 options these days! Few teachers work through all their holidays. Few jobs have such excellent pensions. All my teacher friends are still teaching and are happy.

My DD, not teaching, had one weeks holiday last year plus a few days at Christmas and in September. She works on Sunday afternoons. She is working most evenings, except Friday and Saturday, until about 10. She has to travel and is out of the flat by 7 very often. Lunch break? Not very often! If you want a top job you have to work hard these days.

what grad job with a £25,000 gift

It’s not a gift though, it’s a bursary for an extra year of university and training, in lieu of a graduate salary. And only in extreme shortage subjects.

bubbles did you miss the bit where people commented on the fact that there are students taking this gift (bursary) and then not working as teachers? Clearly either they are just rather cunning or something has put them off!!

You teacher friends probably tell you they are happy because they can't be doing with the argument with somebody clearly as blinkered as you are about their profession.

I do like it thought that you infer that teaching is a stop job. we certainly aren't viewed that way and many of us would love to tracle! (I am sure it isn't as glam as it sounds)

Reading between the lines your DD's job ahs better future earning potential than her fellow graduate teachers.

I don't think teachers mind working hard. It is the punishing regimes and pointless data gathering and bureaucracy. Does your DD also have to deal with shifting goalposts, government ,meddling and poor behaviour from those who she is working for the benefit of on a regular basis?

But thanks for doing the trusty jumping on an education thread to berate teachers thing.

travel not tracle. I have hiccups!

"The majority of drop outs were older career changers. Perhaps they have more to compare with than new graduates."
Interesting 6 out of 20 have now dropped out of the course I was on (all on the 25K bursaries), 5 were career changers.
I think there are two reasons for this 1. career changers can return to their old careers, 2. career changers are unlikely to tolerate the way trainee teachers are treated, as they have something to compare it against, maybe if your straight out of university you don't realise what the norm is.
I can only talk for myself and the trainee teachers I met all started the training full of genuine enthusiasm and a desire to embark on a new exciting career.
I do agree with Bubbles that teachers aren't the only graduates working very hard, very long hours, undertaking pointless data collection, dealing with bureaucracy and working in punishing regimes and lets not forget often for much less holiday than teachers and many graduates working in other areas of the public sector of course will be used to endless government interference and shifting goalposts and those working in the NHS or SS will also be used to regular poor behaviour. Not that this make sit right for teachers to work like this or anyone else for that matter.
Lastly I do agree that many either don't finish the training or do their NQT because something is putting them off I just think many are "cunning".