£600 per pupil for every extra pupil studying maths in sixth form

[noblegiraffe]

Announced in the Budget today was £600 per pupil for every extra pupil who takes A-level maths or Core Maths in 6th form. This will be from 2019 and will use student numbers from this year as a baseline.

While this seems like a nice boost to maths, words cannot express how pissed off I am by the 'extra pupils' caveat. Schools, like mine, who are already offering Core Maths and have piled high maths classes due to lower than other schools' entry requirements will be penalised.

If we want any extra funding, what that will mean is even bigger class sizes than we already have (20+), accepting students who probably shouldn't be on the course, and more work for the classroom teacher (and I bet that the extra money will not be coming my way).

I suppose the question is "is it wrong to steer the bright kids towards maths and physics when that's what the country needs?"

That's not all the country needs. The British "language deficit" is well known -I'm not sure I believe it costs us 3% of GDP, but it's certainly an issue. Not that it could all be fixed with £600, but imagine what exciting authentic resources, subsidised trips, etc could do for language teaching.

Nice to see you on here wyf after having been called a terrible teacher and human being on t'other thread! I didn't dare stick up for you...

DS's Spanish A level class is about 15, believe it or not, after the sixth form actually tried to axe it!

When I did A level German many moons ago I was in a class of 3!

But what is unusual now is someone like noble who mixed maths and a language. Now there would be more pressure from a range of sources to mix maths with physics and another science or economics (and with only three A levels back, there is less picking a hums or otehr essay based subject as a 4th). Maths and MFL is a fabulous combination!

No, I did mean what. What other examples are there of a deliberate push to STEM subjects?

Government policy. Incentivisation of the study of STEM, STEM colleges , UTCs, funding cuts to Arts Projects, conversations my students report having with careers advisers, teachers, parents...incentives and bursaries for teachers of STEM. Today I had a mailshot aimed at physics teachers asking them to pick out future physics teachers ... some sort of bursary project...

Much of this is due to the dearth of STEM teachers but not all of it..

Want to stress, I am not anti STEM. Happy for those who have a passion for it to study it!

Maths is certainly the most popular A level. Biology and Chemistry are above Physics. As are English Literature and History. And Art and Design subjects. For 2017 entries at least. MfL, I agree is in crisis.

The country might say they 'need' maths and physics.

The world needs culture, thought and the appreciation of things of beauty.

Which could be maths and physics.

The incentives for STEM teachers are not to push STEM in schools. They're to staff STEM in schools!

Maths is only recently the most popular A-level. Until a couple of years ago it was English.

Trace it back fallen : maths has overtaken English Lit at both A level and university. I think in a few years time, all the sciences will overtake English Lit.

I am not sure that is entirely true fallen - it is about staffing, but the panic about staffing in STEM is linked with the desire to push STEM forward for the UK to 'compete on the world satge' educationally and in business.

It's a catch -22 . Lure young people towards STEM, promising amazing future career prospects and pay and then wonder why they don't want to go into teaching!

Maths A-level was deliberately 'dumbed down' back in 2005 to increase take-up. There has been loads of work done since then to get more kids taking it. The Further Maths Support Programme has been key in this.

I note we rarely talk about the T of STEM!

Nice to see you on here wyf after having been called a terrible teacher and human being on t'other thread! I didn't dare stick up for you...
Yeah, I decided to duck out of that one!

There are still plenty of people doing Arts and Humanities degrees. Lots of them have A level Maths too. I see that as a plus, to be honest. My DS is doing Maths, Physics, History. At the moment would like to do History. Maybe.

I rarely talk of STEM outside of MN. I say Maths and Science. Because I am a bit scared of Computing...

The panic in staffing is because you can't recruit enough Maths teachers to teach years 11-16 in some schools, let alone A level. I used to be head of a science department with no physics teacher at all for a term. And 34 kids doing physics A level.

Me too...

But no one seems worried about DT subjects so I am guessing they know they can't make people study or teach graphics or electronics who have no aptitude or ability in it.

There is a recruitment crisis in English, too.... and MFL, but that will just die out.

MFL can't die out, 95% of kids will be taking a GCSE in it by, what was it, 2022?

IME, English is nowhere near as bad as Maths and Physics. MFL, as I said, is in crisis. Still, PE always attracts a big field!

MFL needs to be rebuilt from primary level. We are here in New Jersey and my DC have been learning Spanish and mandarin since 3. They are in a state school (called public here). DD has started French because she is doing well with Spanish. DD is six.

I think maths is going through what MFL went through in the 90s. I struggle to help DD with her maths because of the way they teach it these days. I have an economics degree and work in finance for a fixed income desk and I struggle to understand how my 6 year old is being taught. If I am struggling I can only imagine the difficulty other parents have when they aren't strong in maths themselves.

Also, like MFL, if you want to bring about changes you need to start much earlier with children in primary and early years of secondary school. The standard of maths should be much much higher at both GCSE and A'Level. Sadly the only way to achieve these higher standards is to pay more money to hire teachers and lengthen the school day.

We frequently have 0 -1 candidates for English posts. Recruiting HODs is a particular issue in English.

I teach 15 (out of 27) year 12 students who are doing maths with non-stem subjects, so it's not that unusual.

I certainly don't want bigger classes of pupils with lower grades. I'm working my socks off with a class of 17, who all have grade 6 or above at GCSE. If you give me a class of 20+, some of whom have grade 5, then ALL of them will get a worse experience of A level maths than they do currently.

PE teachers it is then Often a sprinkling in Maths and Science.