Are these grades Oxbridge material?

[DivisionBelle]

Yr 12 Ds has been encouraged by his tutor to go to an event set up to enable school students to talk to Oxford and Cambridge undergraduates, I think as part of an initiative to get more state school students to think of applying. His tutor has hinted that he should think about it.

I was a bit surprised, DS is doing well, working hard, but not the sort of high flying straight A*/9s genius that I imagine Oxbridge students to be.

He is doing 2 sciences and Maths at A level.

GCSE:
Maths:9
Triple Science: A, A, A
Further Maths: A
Other subjects: A*, 8, A,A,A, 6,B,B

I know these are good results. but everyone I know who has kids applying to Oxbridge this year had across the board A*s.

If he has a chance, great, we'll go for it. But he has enough on his plate not to be pursuing something that is not actually realistic. What HE wants is get good teaching in a science degree and to eventually be involved in interesting research, wherever that may be.

roisin and sendsummer, great practical advice, will definitely him to look those up and get on it!

All a really useful perspective.

We’ll visit.

I don’t think he or I have an ‘Oxbridge or bust’ drive to get an Oxbridge place for the sake of it, but will definitely go and have a look alongside other strong science Unis.

He is doing Maths, Chemistry, Physics.

he needs to carefully research colleges and pick one that is known for prioritising intellect over academic attainment and then read up on the people who work there, read a few of their books and other note worthy books in the subject area.

There's some great advice above and also some that is misleading or outdated, such as the statement above. Targetting your college choice in this way is simply not necessary. Many applicants will be interviewed at colleges they did not select and more than one college. The pooling system has become much more effective and efficient than years ago in order to ensure good candidates do not lose out because of a specific college choice.

I would also ignore suggestions that extra curricular activities are important. Oxford certainly is only concerned about your intellectual abilities and any activities relating to those.

I suggest you get DS to research the course and the university. There is tons of info online via the Oxbridge official sites and the Student Room. Clue yourselves up about the entry process (it varies by subject in terms of subject tests), find out about open days and maybe taster days. Then DS can decide if it's what he wants. His GCSE results should not preclude him. (13 GCSEs is ludicrous)

Oxbridge is a unique experience. I loved it, but it doesn't suit everyone, so visit/research/investigate.

Yes those grades and number of GCSE's are certainly more than good enough . What you all need to do now is believe in yourselves and apply - my own personal belief is not that Oxbridge is elitist but some schools/ pupils self select themselves from applying because they simply don't think they'll fit when in reality these Universities think the opposite

They didn't get in despite having amazingly high grades because Oxbridge was looking for someone who could also prove they were involved in clubs/societies, could volunteer and had an active social life.

Unless he was specifically told that as written feedback on why he did not get offered a place, I highly, highly doubt it. That's what American colleges want. Far more likely his brain simply didn't interest them. Oxbridge admissions is carried out and decided entirely by tutors, and tutors could not possibly give less of a shit about your clubs and societies, or your social life. They care about what you are like to teach, period. It's never been the case that a good enough or even perfect academic record gets you in, and they have a long track record of rejecting spoonfed, word-perfect exam-doers for people with less good grades who have more intellectual curiosity and independence.

Of course he can apply.
Get him onto all the mentoring and summer schools etc offered like.lumina etc... for state schools. school should know about these

And no they dont care about his social.life...

I'm not sure I agree with some previous posters. DD1 is in her first year at Cambridge studying NatSci, so I do have some experience of the process. She did indeed manage straight A grades at GCSE but her target/predicted grades at A level were not straight A and indeed she did not get that, but made her offer of 2A* and 2A grades in Maths, Physics, Chemistry & Further Maths.

At interview, she was asked about her work experience as it was in a lab. She was also asked about her EP as it was related to the course. She had done some science outreach work at school, so they discussed that too. In short, your DS needs to have other related skills or interests on his personal statement. They didn't give 2 hoots about DD being head girl, grade 8 this and that, D of E or whatever. They wanted to see if she had that mental agility and problem-solving that they wanted. Obviously the other info was on the personal statement for her other UCAS choices, but she was told in no uncertain terms that Oxbridge is not interested.

One thing which might help is to get onto one of their pre-Uni courses. DD went to a Women into Science one which her Chemistry teacher recommended with 2 classmates. They had to complete some questions to be selected to go, but she had a great time and was able to talk to current students and experience a taste of college life.

I wouldn't get too wrapped up on the college. DD applied to one, was interviewed by them then received an offer from a different one, a college she hadn't really considered. We went there in the February half-term holiday to have a look around before she decided her firm choice. Everyone we met was so lovely (porters, catering manager, a couple of academics) that she accepted and is so far having a blast.

Finally (sorry, this is a bit long), I was talking with my Headteacher yesterday about A level choices as I have a daughter in year 12 and a year 11 tutor group. He said that Oxbridge consider the 6th form environment of their applicants. They do not want to be perceived as elitist, so take into account the circumstances under which previous grades were achieved. I hope this helps!

GCSE grades aren't everything for Cambridge admissions. I know (personally rather than rumours) that 6 GCSEs (not all As) was enough to get into Cambridge Vet School...

I had 9 A*s and 2 As and didn't get past interview at Oxford - which wasn't necessarily a bad thing for me then...

They didn't get in despite having amazingly high grades because Oxbridge was looking for someone who could also prove they were involved in clubs/societies, could volunteer and had an active social life.

At the risk of getting repetitive, can I echo (as a tutor doing admissions) those who have said that this is NOT part of the selection criteria for Oxbridge. At least not for any of the courses at Oxford that I know of. The only course that comes close to this is medicine, which I think might have some kind of sign of commitment to the career in terms of work/voluntary experience as a criterion (but someone should double check that).

Oxford unlikely with those GCSEs
Cambridge care more about AS level grades and STEP (where applicable). DS is doing maths at cambridge and most STEM students had AS grades averaging 95% + UMS
If you search under freedom of information you may find questions that have been asked about grades of successful applicants at both institutions

I think a lot of students would offer Further Maths as well as Maths at A level if it is possible to take it at school. It’s all about competing againt others who will have it and can prove greater academic ability.

Another one here who got into oxford with mostly A's, but also a couple of Bs and Cs at GCSE...

OP, re your DS - building his confidence in his ideas is important and i would second the suggestions of podcasts and lectures from imperial etc. Also really trying to dig into what he loves about the subjects and why - this might help him be sure exactly what he wants to study, it doesn't have to be a straight A level subject science. thinking around the subjects, maybe some reading on history or philosophy of science, how does he think the fields he's interested in are going to develop over the next 20 years, what's the most overrated discovery in the field and what the most underrated in his view, how does he think his subjects will impact on big 21st century problems? no right answers just his own considered views.

Most importantly - this should be about developing confidence in his own thinking not feeling he has to turn into someone he isn't. There's lots of super confident debatey types at Oxbridge but lots of quieter, less clearly confident people too - especially in science where blagging only gets you so far! best of luck to him.

Hi ... I know you asked about whether his grades were Oxbridge quality but I think the real question here is whether he should go to this brilliant sounding day set up for people like him to talk to students. The answer has to be YES fullheartedly - whether he decides to pull his finger out for Oxbridge, or decides to go to another uni - this sort of day will be brilliant for him to start thinking about what uni is really like and what he wants from it. So please please encourage him to go - and say that it may not be what he wants (i.e. as uni) but the day itself will be hugely interesting and to enter it in that spirit.

Oh - and I agree with all posters re Oxbridge looking for the mind not the results - I got into Cambridge to read Economics because my History was scholarship level - having been very badly taught both Maths (only half the syllabus) and Economics. i.e. they could see the potential and spent time working this out

I don't know about Oxford, but certainly Cambridge are very keen on improving transparency and being seen to be fair.

Those grades are a little on the weak side by Oxbridge standards but really AS grades are the real currency - if AS aren't at least say half A* & the rest A then forget it, if they're better than that then GCSE grades barely matter at all.

if AS aren't at least say half A*

I am pretty sure you cannot get A* at AS. Has something changed again?

AS has been discontinued by most 6th forms.

I would just like to add to this thread; my son won a place to Oxford after ace-ing his A Levels and having a productive gap year - he had attended a grammar school and done well but it was definitely Oxbridge orientated.
He did really well there but was almost seduced by the sort of Brideshead people he mixed with. We are professional people but don't live in a Castle !
He got increasingly pissed off that we couldn't host huge parties etc..his girlfriend was an honourable etc ...
Thankfully it's all finished , he has come back to earth and has found his niche...but as they say..buyer beware..Oxbridge can have its problems

Interesting what you say, Barbara. There are certainly (far too many) privileged people at Oxbridge but they are outnumbered by the ‘ordinary’ (albeit more professional backgrounds than a national average). I think it’s very easy to avoid the Brideshead malarky if you want to - certainly all my uni friends are comparatively poorly paid! Perhaps I should have expanded my circle more there.

One more teacher here saying that Oxbridge don’t care about your hockey team presidency etc. In fact, they’ll often prefer you to have not too many distractions from work (unless you’re an absolutely phenomenal sporting standard - Blues rowing etc - when they might be mildly interested). This nonsense was trotted out by my well-meaning 6th form teachers when I was applying many years ago and it is trotted out by colleagues and heads despite many of us and Oxbridge confirming its is nonsense. In my experience, strong candidates who overload themselves at 6th Form with extra curriculars can miss out on a place because they can’t maintain a high enough standard/prepare adequately for interview. That not to say they shouldn’t do the extra curriculars if they like - horses for courses.