what grade does your school require to do an A level in that subject?

[user1484040234]

My Kids' school currently requires a B grade to do an A level subject. For next year it's going to be a grade 7 with a grade 7 in Maths to do science subjects. Have other schools changed their requirements with the new linear GCSE/A levels? A 7 is supposed to be an A. This is a local comprehensive school.

Vast numbers of 18 year olds will be perfectly happy with 3 A levels, regardless of whether they are grade A or grade E, if they want to follow one of the many career routes not involving university. University is not the be all and end all these days. I teach professional qualifications with several different entry routes. I have seen students without glowing A level results achieve global prizes, achieving huge success compared to their Oxbridge peers. If the government is forcing 16 year olds to stay on at college, the colleges are right to admit students to take A levels with 5 passes at GCSE. If they don't, we are simply creating the equivalent of the 11+ at 6th form level.

Perhaps it's not a bad thing to create the equivalent of an 11+ at A Level. In many ways this has always existed because there have always been requirements to A Level, so those who have not been able to take them.

I think it's right that only those suited to A Level study and who have a reasonable chance to get decent grades should do them. GCSE is a fair way to judge this. The thing is that a decent proportion of children are not suited to this kind of academic study.....just wanting most children to do A Levels and go to Uni doesn't make it possible for most.

The key thing then,N with compulsory education 16-18 is that there is actually something decent and worthwhile for those not doing A Levels. Perhaps the problem is that other qualifications are still not always well regarded so kids and their parents want A Levels when they are not suitable.

It's pretty usual for selective schools to ask for As (or equivalent) at GCSE for study at A Level in that subject. Where it's a new subject or where the subject hasn't been studied at GCSE, then they look at a similar skills subject. It is not common, but not totally unusual for kids to take A Level History or gEography without having done GCSE - but if they have an A in English and another humanity and have a good range of high level GCSEs they should be fine.

It seems that non-selective schools, which obviously actually are selective at A Level, usually take a 6 and at a push and if desperate for bums on seats for funding will take a 5. Those with a 5 have a high chance of failing or achieving an E grade.

I think people get uptight about this in non-selective schools because they somehow think a Comprehensive ethos should apply that everyone is welcome. Probably everyone is welcome onto some kind of course, but A Levels just aren't suitable for all.

Every year in August there are parents bemoaning the fact that their child with an equivalent C or a B at Maths isn't being allowed to do A Level, when the schools have made their entry requirements clear and explained them to kids and parents.

7s maybe on the high side, but are acceptable for high performing schools which want the kids to be able to progress at a fast pace which is hindered by having lower ability children. 6s seem reasonable to me for schools which have a broader intake lower down and which accept and make clear that there will be a broader range of results and final destinations and that the pace of lessons will be different because of this range.

And I agree that some teacher judgement is needed too. When schools have 6th Forms they know if someone with a 5 or 6 was literally dragged there through massive intervention which allowed them to outperform their true ability - they know that whilst they may have scraped the grade (and fantastic on them and the school for doing it) they simply aren't up to what is needed at A Level. Kids (and parents) can forget in the euphoria of results day that they actually found GCSE extremely hard, didn't really enjoy the subject and are probably not suited to it.

Managing aspiration whilst not crushing it is really important. At this point, sensible schools will be advising students about GCSE preparation - they will be encouraging them and being clear they are going to help them get the very best grades they can. But their job at this time is also to advise about 6th Form options and it can sometimes be right to tell someone that the schools does hope to get them to a B or even an A, but they also don't think that particular subject is right for them at A Level. It's much easier to say this if there are some other subjects which might be right. However for some kids, even with all 5s or 6s who have got those grades with loads of intervention and a following wind, it just isn't right. One of the jobs of teachers is to be honest about those things. And bearing in mind that school funding is helped a lot by 6th formers, schools don't say 'no' lightly.

A school will demand a grade that ensures they have full classes.

Depends on the subject at our comprehensive. 4's are accepted for Dance, Drama, Textiles, Business Studies etc, 5's for most things, 6's for science and languages, 7 for maths.

Local college: Five grade 4 GCSEs including English language - selection of A levels
Grades averaging close to 5.5 at GCSE - Core 3 A levels

English Lit - GCSEs to include grade 4 in English, min average score 4.
History - as above
Geography - grade 4 in geography if studied as GCSE & grade 4s in English & maths
Maths - minimum grade 6 in maths, average score 5.5
Further Maths- minimum grade 7 in maths, average score 5.5
Chemistry, biology, physics - minimum grade 5 in the subject or combined science plus English & maths, average score 5.5
Modern languages - minimum grade 5 in the relevant language if taken at GCSE, average score 4.

My DDs (plural 2) school requires 4 grade 7s just to be allowed in to the sixth form . The school expect all A level choices to be in subjects: where the pupil achieved an A or a 7 .

Grade 8s are required to study Maths/ Sciences !

The context is the school sent 15 to Oxbridge last year !

So as i told DD1 (yr12) and DD2 (yr9) ; if you can't take the heat, leave and go to another school.

Just to clarify, we don't have 6th forms attached to schools and our colleges typically have 1000 -1600 students in each year group, hence the need to serve the whole community.

7 for STEM subjects (was an A / 7 last year) but for a Further Maths A Level you need an 8 in Maths.

6 for almost everything else.

This is a comp. Same requirements at our next-nearest comp.

“The context is the school sent 15 to Oxbridge last year !”

And why wouldn’t they? The intake is very selective .

I would say the context of them sending 15 students to Oxbridge is their very selective entry requirements, rather than the other way around. My son's 6th form college has higher entry requirements than the other one in town. It gets higher results, funnily enough. Very high GCSE grades are not required for A level passes. They do mean students are more likely to get high A level grades, teaching etc being equal.

Is it fair to the students to let them take subjects they want to take knowing that the most likely outcome is that they will crash and burn

I always find this view quite strange. Lots of students will pull their fingers out for A level in a way they simply wouldn't do for GCSE (it can happen the other way round too, I know)

Maybe the teaching at GCSE wasn't great. Maybe having to do subjects they weren't so good at for GCSE has had a negative impact on the subjects they were good at because eg they've had to spend lots of extra time doing Maths to get the grade 5 in it.

Also people need to be in college/work until they are 18. So if you get a string of 5s what are you suggesting those students do for those two years? I went to a grammar school and nearly everyone went to sixth form, even the lower end of the cohort with Cs and maybe even a few Ds. They may have got Ds and Es at A level but they still went onto meaningful study and employment. There were very few complete fails.

I can't see the point of writing people off because they didn't do very well in their GCSEs.

I agree that students shouldn't be written off because they didn't do well at GCSE.

However not writing them off isn't the same as allowing everyone who has got 4s and 5s at GCSE to do A Levels or to do GCSEs in any subjects they choose.

Absolutely there needs to be the right, appropriate courses for those people who have got beyond a 4 but who just aren't A Level material. That is something which needs sorting and I know it isn't sorted. But because it isn't sorted doesn't mean that students should be directed to or allowed onto inappropriate courses.

And things are different to when us parents were doing A Levels. People always hark back to 4 Cs as an entry requirement and then 3 Ds or Es being decent and those people going onto good courses and great jobs. Things just aren't quite the same anymore. Better grades are required for professional type degrees and jobs.

I would say there is only a point in doing A Levels or any qualification if you can do well enough for it to open doors to the next stage on - so uni or an apprenticeship or a job which needed A Levels. If you can't get to that level, the qualification is a waste of time and a waste of tax payers money. If you get an E and 2 Us then really those 2 years won't have achieved much or opened doors to the next stage.

And people are not realistic about the prospects at A Level after poor or mediocre GCSEs. All this, they might suddenly become motivated and work hard and do much better at A Alevel than GCSE is to be honest wishful thinking.
Evidence suggests that A Level results are very strongly correlated to GCSE results. GCSES are obviously easier and students are likely to perform LESS WELL at A Level than GCSE. Those starting with a C or equivalent at GCSE are very very likely fail to complete the course or to fail it. It isn't helpful for schools to allow kids or parents to live under the misaprehension that suddenly a child will miraculously transform and do loads better.

Our school demand 6, recommends 7 for sciences and maths but will negotiate on a 5 if the teacher feels the grade is a one off and not a reflection of true ability. DD1was told she would be allowed to do English Lit with a 5 if her exams went disastrously wrong. (she got 8/8).

Lots of students will pull their fingers out for A level in a way they simply wouldn't do for GCSE

I teach maths where there is a very strong correlation between GCSE grade and A-level outcome. If you got a B at GCSE, the most likely outcome is that you won’t make it to Y13 (most don’t make it past the first few weeks). Trying hard in Y12 is all very well, but you actually need to know/be good at a bunch of stuff from GCSE and if you got a low grade, you don’t have those skills/knowledge and acquiring them in Y12 before you fall too far behind with actual A-level content is a very difficult task.
B grade/grade 6 students need to be aware of this huge risk, and IMO it’s ethically a poor decision to allow them onto the course unless you know them very well and the reason for their GCSE grade which should have been higher.

However not writing them off isn't the same as allowing everyone who has got 4s and 5s at GCSE to do A Levels or to do GCSEs in any subjects they choose.

I have been looking at some of the entry requirements of further education colleges for A levels ; some of them are ridiculously lax.
It cannot be in any child's interest to study 3 A levels , if their profile is 4 grade 4 (C) grades. However , look through the internet and you will see many colleges allowing access to A level courses; with as little as 4 grade 4s.

A grade four isn't even recognized by the Government, as being of academic rigor . The Government only accepted it as a pass, after it became clear of the chaos ; that would have followed, if they had not.

The world has moved on since i was accepted in to my grammar school sixth form with a profile of 3 Bs and 3 Cs at GCSE in 1990 !
Somehow i achieved 2 Cs and a D at A level !

I would suggest that A level study was not the right choice for me, given how certain posters have commented on my lack of understanding of punctuation !

However, by entering students with profiles that really require more work at GCSE level on to A level studies ; the student will invariably be attaining U or E grades at best !
Two whole years of study wasted for students concerned. These types of students were should be pointed towards doing BTEC type qualifications . The two bonuses would be first the student, who is likely to come out with a grounding knowledge; about an industry. Secondly perhaps BTEC and other vocational qualifications would lose the attached stigma of being for 'dummy's'.

the country is crying out for skilled vocational training, especially after Brexit ; why or why cant the country make vocational education a priority.

I worked in policy development for one of the biggest exam boards in the country until a few months ago and all of our work was focused on the grading structure and helping people understand it. At that time 7 was a very high B/low A but I left before this year's results were out so appreciate it may have shifted since then.

My dd school expects a B/6 to continue to A level, you don't need to have passed any other subject to take a particular subject.
You don't need a Maths GCSE to take science.

Just looked at the prospectus for the school where I teach. They ask for a 7 in maths for maths/further maths, 6 in maths + science for sciences. I don't know what they used to ask for in letter grades.

I teach MFL, we ask for a 5 in the relevant language but would let you in with a 3

I do think it depends on what the person wants to do in the future.
If the Uni the person is applying to has lower expectancies, then surely they should be allowed to take the subject, even if they don't do so well.

My dd future Higher Ed choice only require 3 GCSE's A-C equivalent and min of 2 A levels E and above.
It's set particularly low as there is a specialist subject in there where obviously you'd need really good grades.
Ao bearing in mind they have to take 8/9 GCSE's there's bound to be some in there that aren't such good results and perhaps an A level or two that are only an E.

You don't have to be planning on university to do A levels. If somebody had the capacity to pass an A level, even at an E, and they love the subject and want to study it in more depth for 2 years, then surely that is at least one of the aims of education? I used to teach Biology and Psychology and have taught quite a number of students in that category. I do agree with noblegiraffe about Maths, and would add Physics and Chemistry to that. But lots of subjects are accessible at a lower level of attainment.