Pointless homework - WWYD?

[EvilTwins]

DTDs are in yr 7. One gets endless amounts of homework (the other doesn’t) and much of it feels a bit pointless. Today, she told me she has a 3 week history project for which she has to “make something” to do with castles - she can make a cake or a model or a mood board with lots of pictures. I asked her what The actual learning in the project is and she doesn’t know. Last week, she was given a project where she had to do a presentation about herself. That’s for study skills, and they are focusing on the presentation aspect. Her sister does the same subjects (different teachers) and did not have the same homework - hers was to practise the presentation skills, rather than spend hours doing a pointless PowerPoint.

Homework should be to either consolidate learning, extend learning or prepare for a lesson (or test) Making a model of Lincoln Castle out of fudge does neither of those things.

WWYD? Contact School? DTD2 could be spending her time so much better.

Couldn’t agree more but blame Michael Gove for messing about with the National Curriculum

So did departments work together more before Michael Grove then?

What I’m learning from this thread is that English is so dull it needs to be occasionally spiced up with food tech

Better than the god awful MyMaths

Better than the god awful MyMaths

Indeed it is. I really don't think teachers realise how awful it is to be on the other end of it. May be good for teachers to avoid marking but still have progress records, but appallingly time wasting and unproductive for pupils. Having to do whole sections again and again just because you got one question wrong is painful and means a 30 minute homework can take a couple of hours. Time that would be better spent doing more productive things.

Sorry, pressed enter to soon. Also to add that it does absolutely nothing to help kids get used to writing down their workings which is essential in the real exam, doesn't give any marks for error carried forward where otherwise logic is sound, and doesn't give worked examples, so if the kid doesn't understand why they got an answer wrong, they're stuffed. Truly, truly awful.

So glad it is not just my ds who does MyMaths. He never repeats if he gets a qu wrong though! . Are you supposed to?

At least with mymaths they’re actually doing maths and not, I dunno, building the Taj Mahal out of cocktail sticks and pretending it’s maths.
I agree it’s not a great system, I’d never ask for 100% because it does sometimes bodge the marking and written homework is important for showing workings BUT instant feedback is also very valuable in maths so online platforms do have their place. (bunny there is a linked lesson for each homework so if a kid is stuck they should be going through the lesson).
That’s an example where the system is a bit crap, but the task is fine.

(bunny there is a linked lesson for each homework so if a kid is stuck they should be going through the lesson)

Yes, I know, but there's no worked answers, so you spend inordinate amounts of time trying to find where you went wrong, and don't know if you're just not understanding or whether MyMaths answer is wrong. We've found a few of their answers to be wrong (as eventually confirmed by teacher), after literally wasting hours trying. Worked answers would have saved a lot of wasted time meaning more time available to learn other things.

Are you supposed to?

Depends on the teacher. My son's teacher insisted on 100% correct and told them to keep re-doing it until they got there. He based his grades/marks on the number of attempts they took to get there!! But that was the top set, so high expectations.

You don't think building the Taj Mahal out of cocktail sticks would involve the practical application of maths? It would and its unsuitability would come from the difficulty of the maths/physics involved and the duration of the task not the lack of content. Oh and the inability of most British school children to actually apply their mathematical knowledge to anything that doesn't look like a sum in a page/screen.

You don't think building the Taj Mahal out of cocktail sticks would involve the practical application of maths?

Mostly it would involve cocktail sticks, glue and tears.
Of course there may be some maths involved in creating the Taj Mahal out of cocktail sticks, just like there might be some history knowledge involved in making a castle out of toilet roll tubes. The issue is that the proportions are completely wrong and the student will remember the glue and tears and lack of success over whatever maths was meant to be gleaned from it. As a tool to teach maths, it’s crap.

Whilst swimming, I've been thinking more about castle building.

In my house, the bit about the defensive towers and arrow slits would go something like this.

Mum, I need some tubes to make my towers
OK, how about toilet roll tubes
No, they're not long enough
Well, I can probably find the inside of a wrapping paper tube
OK
I go off, unroll wrapping paper, provide tube
Mum, I've tried cutting it but its too hard and got all squashed and I've hurt my finger
I resolve all issues, by cutting it myself or getting DH to use one of his extra sharp knives he uses for his 'hobby' if he's around
Mum, I forgot to say, I need arrow slits too
Can't you draw them on?
No I need them cut out, can you do it as I'll damage the tubes
OK where do you want them? Can you draw them on
Right, give them here and I'll try to cut them out... there you go
Mum, I need a cone on the top of each tower but can't get it the right
OK, how tall do you want it? Right, no we can't use corrugated cardboard as it won't roll, paper will have to do. Look, this is how you make a cone ....
Mum, how can I stick it on, the selotape is getting all messed up and I need it to look neat otherwise Pengggwyn will think I haven't tried ....

This will have taken upwards of an hour.

Now repeat for the walls and battlements
Now repeat for drawbridge.

It will take 3 hrs minimum to produce even a shoe box with four towers and battlements and drawbridge. And to be honest, that will have included maybe 15 minutes of proper learning. All the rest will have been craft focussed.

(I don't like mymaths either, but I can see it has its place. Our school has accounts but doesn't seem to set it for homework, or at least my DDs teacher doesn't).

DD had an Art h/w recently to write about how a particular painting made her feel and why. It was GREAT. She could practice point Evidence Explain ... .

MyMaths - have to agree. Thankfully my son's current teacher doesn't use it. Now he can do his 30 minute maths homework in that allotted time and with a lot less stress. A classic "design fail" of not actually "experiencing" the end result from the user, i.e. the pupil. Clearly been written by teachers for teachers who've not been at sharp end. I also have to echo the above comment about errors. I think they should at least have properly checked every question/answer.

Admittedly primary but DS, yr6, had a term to build a model of a local castle. So we did the research around castles mainly engineering and history, and he build a sturdy model of local castle with some information about its history. It had to be sturdy as have a mile walk into school.

They were also being judge for some reason - winner put of proud display a bright pink and purple classic Disney castle with typical conical turrets not seen on any local castles. .

I thought it would stop at primary but no it’s at secondary school as well – languages seem to involve colouring in flags or pictures then on reports it says DD1 need more practise listening, speaking and writing languages we don’t speak – I do best I can with audio tapes and dulingo as it is and paying for the away additional language trips.

My secondary school child has had the make a cell homework and instead of what I did in geography write brief summary of main feature of all the temperate zone she spent twice as long building a model of one.

By far the worse was an English group work assignment – they had considerable homework and lesson time on it. Comment on how films use the given medium to introduce background stories integral to plots presenting in the given medium– her groups given medium was dance.

They couldn’t do clarification on what they were looking for or offer any help to her with a group that didn’t want to do any work, it was a very mixed ability class thankful they’ve set that subject this year – they were being marked on it all and in p/t conference told us they couldn’t understand why DD1 a hard working ambitious child who wants to do well got upset with whole thing.

I think both children have found it very demoralising at times – we certainly in wake of worst project had the why am I bothering to do homework arguments from the children.

It's occured to me DD1 top maths set now in year 8 has not had any written maths homework set since primary.

Is that odd?

Ds, yr6, has lots of complaint about how badly he lays work out - which have impoved as both teachers and us have been working with him for years but if he backs slides we wouldn't see it.

1. The point of homework is usually to practise or to demonstrate what you have learnt, not to learn something new. The castle homework does that.

2. Different kids enjoy and benefit from different types of task. It is nice to set occasional homeworks that appeal to the more creative/ hands-on types.

3. Homework can be an opportunity to think independently and 'outside the box'. Parents (and kids) often complain if homework is a succession of boring worksheets.

It is nice to set occasional homeworks that appeal to the more creative/ hands-on types.

Maybe, but grossly unfair to punish those who don't/aren't, i.e. detentions for those who the teacher perceives didn't put enough effort it. I'd have said these "crafty" types of homework should be voluntary so that those who want to, can, and those who don't should have an alternative, and certainly the "end result" shouldn't form part of the pupil's mark/grade.

I’m not sure setting a homework because it’s nice for crafty types or ‘something different’ is a valid reason if the educational value regarding your actual subject matter is very low.

Well yes, obviously if I were a history teacher I'd base the actual mark on whether they'd demonstrated knowledge of what bits a castle has, not on how perfectly-formed their battlements were. That's pretty obvious, surely? In reality I'm an MFL teacher, so a mark for a 'draw and write a postcard in French about your holiday' homework would be based on the French, not on the quality of the picture. But a nice additional comment about the artistic merit of the homework (particularly for a creative child who's not very good at French) would be good.

noblegiraffe, of course you shouldn't set a homework purely for its crafty appeal if it has no educational value for your subject. That would be daft. But surely there are plenty of tasks which could fulfil both those criteria. In any case, a creative project which inspires enthusiasm for your subject can have inherent value beyond the scope of the task itself.

Beginning to feel DD is put upon - year 7 as well

Geography - Research Antartic treaty and comment on its impact

Science -Full term project on antibiotic resistence which will culminate in a presentation to the class at the start of next term

Maths - god knows i dont' understand it but something to do with complex fractions

Physics - circuits so not too bad

Chemistry - Research element of choice and indicate what its used for and its properties

Food and nutrition - make a leaflet aimed at reception and year one children about healthy eating

Latin - basic translation she's only just started

French - Filling in gaps in sentence type stuff

That's over the last couple of weeks though think there have been other bits I've not noticed

No castles though!

'draw and write a postcard in French about your holiday'

As a parent I would prefer not to see the word 'draw' there, or at least explained verbally at time of setting that yes a photo, or picture cut from magazine or sourced on internet are all fine. Merci.
(Extra credit for artistic merit is fine, but not mandating it into the h/w)

As a parent I would prefer not to see the word 'draw' there, or at least explained verbally at time of setting that yes a photo, or picture cut from magazine or sourced on internet are all fine.

Have to agree with that. Having to "draw" the picture just wastes time and detracts from the homework itself. A picture or photocopy should be absolutely fine. Maybe "draw" in the old days, but these days, most kids can just google and print a suitable picture which for the purpose of the homework is just as good.

teen I feel your Pain!!

I once spilled brown paint all over the house making a sukkot.

My dd would rather spend a large proportion of her revision time being crafty, designing a timetable - she doesn't follow, making very lovely and elaborate notes, mind maps, flashcards etc - that she doesn't look at again once created, except to admire how beautiful they look and despite someone mentioning that the creative approach helps information to stick, it doesn't seem to work for her! She can't be convinced that her time would be better spent making slightly less beautiful notes and tackling some more questions and actually using the flashcards, notes and mind maps that she has spent hours making!

Conversation this very evening
Me: Ds1, do you have any homework tonight?
Ds1 (Y7): No
Me:
Ds1: Well, the only homework I have is the one you need to do
Me:
Ds1: You need to cover my history book in plastic
Me: [sigh]