Anything wrong with placing a child out of year?

[NotResilient]

DD has confidence and emotional issues due to undiagnosed SEN. She is "working towards" expected levels. Now we have a diagnosis and EHCP, isn't placing out of year in a different school the only way to catch up and rebuild confidence?

If DD is already at school that is unlikely to happen in terms of a different year group either in the same school or a different school. It is now possible with agreement of the LA to start school in a different year group but is rarely accepted after they have started at school.
You now appear to have a diagnosis plus EHCP so hopefully DD will start to make better than expected progress in the future. Sometimes it is surprising how quickly pupils can catch up, once the trigger for improvement has been established.

Who is going to work on better than expected progress?

All schools we visited seem to be aiming at just any minimal progress compared to the status quo.Placing outside the year group is the only way of getting better than expected progress, without which he confidence will crumble further.

What are the reasons for not agreeing to place in lower year?

your child is entitled to a certain number of years of free education, you can't just decide you want another one, unless you pay for it privately.

Why do you think placing out of year group is the only way?
It could equally go that, it increases her difficulties by adding social issues on to whatever difficulties she already has.

Free education is for 15 years , 7 in primary 5 secondary and 2 for A- levels or similar, so there is a "spare year"

the "spare" year is for post 16, not years r-11.

if you theoretically do GCSEs a year late ( not that you can, in the state sector), you would not be entitled to apply for an apprenticeship, nor to do a level 2 qualification in sixth form before level 3, nor change sixth form course, not resit A levels, etc. There is a "spare year" but only for special circumstances, and only post 16, where the funding is different.

In addition, there are many social and logistic difficulties with being outside your year, as well as being excluded from sport. As well, there are problems with insurance, and with legal requirements of age restrictions on various trips, activities and parts of the curriculum.

Silver many children defer in state schools and have no such problems being taught out of cohort.

Silver many children defer in state schools and have no such problems being taught out of cohort.

only if they return to their cohort before leaving that school, so it is entirely internal to the school. It is very rare, because it will automatically knock the school down the league tables, so it has to be a school which will accept that.

It seems most odd to me that you can't easily do this. Where I was brought up (not UK) if you didn't pass the school year (graded by teachers in primary or passed end of year exams in secondary), you had to repeat the year. There were always a handful of slightly older children in the year who had repeated a year by the end of schooling, sometimes it was just what they needed to get them back on track

I thought that with an ECHP, you could access additional years of education under certain circumstances. But only if the plan specifies it.

The school is obliged to follow the plan, not parent's wishes in addition to the plan. Did you raise this as a possibility during the meetings whilst current version was drawn up? What was the response?

if you theoretically do GCSEs a year late ( not that you can, in the state sector), you would not be entitled to apply for an apprenticeship, nor to do a level 2 qualification in sixth form before level 3, nor change sixth form course, not resit A levels, etc. There is a "spare year" but only for special circumstances, and only post 16, where the funding is different.

Why not entitled? What is the basis in law that once a decision has been taken via EHCP, the child will continue to be penalised year after year? Wouldn't that be discrimination?

Obviously EHCP is a special circumstance

What/ Who governs the funding before 16? I mean what is the legal route to appeal it?

Silver no, in Liverpool for example deferred children will stay in the same out of cohort year group through their education.

Just want to say thanks for all the answers so far.

Social and emotional problems are already acute due to ASD, so I don't see how it could be much worse.

The main idea is that placing out of year it is the only realistic way to catch up.

Any experiences with this anyone?

And please do tell me what the law and the route of appeal are.

Bottom line is that it is the LA who will agree or disagree with changing year groups, so you need to approach them to start the discussion about staying in the same year group fro two years . For the right pupil it has to be a sensible way forward but the question that all have to answer is whether it is the right move. In other words would staying back a year give the pupil the opportunity to improve at an accelerated rate or will they always be a pupil who is "working towards"

It is only in the last few years that it has become the case that it is more common and possible to do this with the LA's agreement, so as you go up the age range you will in theory stay in the same out of age year group.

However at the time to move to secondary does seem a point at which there seems a push to get pupils back to their correct age group. Personally I do not see how this can happen for most pupils as they will have missed year 7 completely and must therefore be behind again.

The reality is that it is only now that the out of age pupils are starting to cause issues further up the educational ladder and the usual processes and rules are having to be reconsidered.

would staying back a year give the pupil the opportunity to improve at an accelerated rate or will they always be a pupil who is "working towards"

That is the key question, but how could they judge that?
How to make accelerated progress happen?

An outcome in EHCP "Works at level withing 12 months"?

Not much to add except that the curriculum is designed by politicians so that a certain percentage don’t meet expected standards. If everyone met them then they’d just move the finish line further along so that they could claim that they were championing a rigorous curriculum.

One of my kids used to get the “working towards” label and the teachers always looked puzzled when I’d ask how far away he was from expected. If he was in the year below, would he be expected? The old number grading system at least made it clearer how far behind he was. He’s a late August born hence the question about being in the year below.

Well yes, you are spot on Eyebrows.
DD was left behind for too long without a diagnosis and EHCP.

I am basically trying to see where in the system teachers would bring DD to "at level" and keep at that level.

Anyone's DC made accelerated progress?
How?

Ok, to look at it another way ....

{say your dd ought to be in Year 8 - I'm just putting that for explanation purposes as I can't see where you have said)
What if they said "She is working at a level that we would normally be expected from a child who is in Yr3" - do you think that would be appropriate - for a 12 - 13 yr old to be sitting in class and playing out at break times with 7 - 8 yr olds?
Or what if they said she was 'just' 2 years behind - would it be any better for her to be in Yr 6 again ?
Or - and this is very likely with many people with ASD having a very uneven profile - what if they said she was working at Yr 8 for chemistry and biology, Yr 9 for maths, Yr 3 for English, Yr 5 for History and Geography, etc.,etc... then where do you think she should move to ?
All teachers work with children covering a massive range of abilities and levels of understanding. However, if a child has particular difficulties accessing the curriculum because of their special need, then they usually can't suddenly access everything by repeating a year of work. It really isn't that simple.

SIlver47 I know of at least two children who have been kept back a year in primary and have been a year behind right through the whole system -primary and secondary.

An EHCP runs until 25 so the moving years and access to education are different. It's designed for those who may need extra education to bridge the gap and reach full potential.

Can I just say as a person who did change school and was ‘put back a year’ I hated it! I was bullied and bullied by other children. I felt left out and in the end it didn’t help me at all.

But they did what they thought was right for me at the time.

I did however go to uni and get a degree

Being educated out of year is at the discretion of the HT/Governors not the LA. Section I of the EHC plan just names the setting and not the year group.

OK Backforgood, of course I given a thought for complexities. DD has been "working towards" since year 2 and her attainment line is nicely parallel to the national expected level, meaning her rate of progress with some SEN support is the same as those working at level. She is not years behind and the teachers insist that she is broadly within touch with her year group. However, teachers are also consistent in saying that "in this school" DD will never catch up because "there are so many children in the class". This "working towards" is a slow burning hell for DD. It destroyed her confidence completely and every time the class starts a challenging task, she feels like a rug is pulled from under her feet.

I intend to rebuild DD's confidence and joy of school. So far I haven't heard any better ideas from any school.

Concerning bullying, DD is bullied now and will continue to be anyway in any mainstream school.

Being educated out of year is at the discretion of the HT/Governors not the LA. Section I of the EHC plan just names the setting and not the year group.

This is very interesting. Can the school really move down a year without asking the LA? Is it safe to ask this question at open evenings?

This is very interesting. Can the school really move down a year without asking the LA? Is it safe to ask this question at open evenings

The LA will need to consult with your preference as to wether they can meet your child’s needs as per her EHCP. You will need to discuss education out of year with the school. It is at their discretion, many schools won’t do it and just because they do it for one year there is no guarantee that they will not put your child back in year when she makes progress.