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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Why is it only Southfields Academy with spaces in Wandsworth?

36 replies

justaboutontopofthings · 26/09/2017 22:00

Looking for secondary in year transfer and there seem to be a lot of spaces here when other schools are massively oversubscribed. I have read a little about the school's past but Ofsted says good and results look ok (or are they not all they seem?) Appreciate any local opinions if you have children there or know why this school doesn't seem so popular.

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Teddygirlonce · 27/09/2017 06:18

I think because it is regarded as 'rough' by the naice local families. It serves quite a large council state (behind it - think it might be the one where Sadiq Khan grew up?), although that is probably true of most Wandsworth state secondaries (with the exception of the Bolingbroke Academy), even Graveney.

Know lots of Southfields/Wimbledon Park families and Southborough never even gets mentioned as a possible secondary school choice.

justaboutontopofthings · 27/09/2017 07:55

Thanks Teddy. Viewed as rough I can cope with. Actually rough might be a concern (DD shy and nervous type). So if it's just snobbery (and tbh plenty of bullies from naice families IME) that's good to hear. Current numbers suggest it's half the size it was a few years ago. Do you know are teachers good - do they stay with the school or are they often recruiting. Know anything about the Head?

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jeanne16 · 27/09/2017 08:03

When did it become acceptable to brand middle class people as 'naice', with the obvious implication being they are snobs and to be disregarded. When a school is viewed as being quite rough, it is because it usually is.

I am a secondary school maths teacher and have worked in similar schools. The constant low level disruption in classes is exhausting and means very little is achieved in some lessons. Having said that, if you are confident your DC will end up exclusively in top sets, they can do well as they will be separated from the tougher kids.

Teddygirlonce · 27/09/2017 08:43

There is a lot of local snobbishness about schools though - have you lived in the area??? And I wasn't necessarily suggesting that was a reason to disregard their views but it helps frame them.

justaboutontopofthings · 27/09/2017 08:58

I don't think middle class families have exclusivity on thinking themselves above others and I don't like that attitude wherever it comes from but anyway...

Jeanne16 do you know SA (by saying "similar" I'm hoping so) and if so is it difficult to progress in lower sets? Mychild not top set material but like to think she can make good progress and not fail to achieve much because of what goes on in the classroom. I'm going to take her to have a look round but open days never give you a good feel. Not had any reply to seeing school on a "normal" day...

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Soupoftheday1975 · 27/09/2017 09:02

I live not far from said school and I don't have nice things to say to be honest...if you want to have a feel why don't you come at 3 at the standen road bus stop ! They are so charming - not.

thecatfromjapan · 27/09/2017 09:06

Whereabouts do you live justabout ?

justaboutontopofthings · 27/09/2017 09:11

Soupoftheday really? I will go sit outside and stake out the place then! Is it much more than the normal behaviour many kids display when let loose at the end of the day?? I've seen (and probably been one of) many children behaving badly / loudly at home time. Is there anything else you could comment on? It's really hard to get info - the website is bad and I don't know people there to get the inside on it.

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justaboutontopofthings · 27/09/2017 09:22

thecatfromjapan north London but we are moving south quite soon.

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thecatfromjapan · 27/09/2017 09:34

If she can carry on at her current school for a bit, it might be worth waiting for other places to turn up. They will turn up.

Southfields is large and not so great. There are some very good schools in Wandsworth, with good pastoral care. I'd hold on. You live in London, with good transport. She has a school place that she can get to - that is probably easier to get to than quite few rural schools. There's no rush, so you might as well hang on and see if another school comes up.

What the previous poster said about low level disruption in middle stream classes is spot on. If she's going to be a middle stream child, she could do with a school that has less of that. It's probably more important for a non-top-set child than less important.

justaboutontopofthings · 27/09/2017 10:56

thanks thecatfromjapan, we'll visit some more and go on waiting lists then. she'd be probably middle to lower sets (depending on cohort) and has dyslexia (not severe but has an impact) so I quite liked they seemed to have a big SEN team too but i'm getting the feeling SA might not be a great fit. Thanks for all the advice.

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OhTheRoses · 27/09/2017 11:12

If you are moving close to Southfields it is worth also looking at neighbouring boroughs that are very easy to get to. Hammersmith & Fulham and Merton. Ricards although beset with a poor reputation for years has been on an upward trajectory now for about 7/8 years and the girls I saw in Wimbledon at going home time were impeccable yesterday.

Southfields Community College has a very poor reputation locally. It did a while ago have a v good head who made improvements but I think she's gone now.

Wandsworth secondary schools sadly aren't great at all which is extraordinary compared to the primaries.

Having said all that places do come up, people move, especially in the younger years.

justaboutontopofthings · 27/09/2017 17:18

Thanks very much. We'll check it out as it would be easiest to go to a local school but I think we'll come up with a Plan B given general opinion.

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CamperVamp · 27/09/2017 18:36

"When did it become acceptable to brand middle class people as 'naice', with the obvious implication being they are snobs and to be disregarded. When a school is viewed as being quite rough, it is because it usually is. "

Perhaps round about the time it became OK to brand those who live in social housing as 'rough' and automatically disruptive.

My DC went to / go to a school thought to be rough by many, in an area dismissed as 'rough' by many MNers. It has good discipline and excellent results.

Talk about hypocrisy and double standards in challenging stereotypes.

SW18Poster · 28/09/2017 09:03

NC as I’m an insider and a Southfields local so can comment authoritatively but don’t wish to out myself.

There is a huge amount of snobbery involved. Twenty five years ago Southfields Academy was the local school of choice to go to, but as the area has changed and demographics with it, it has been overlooked. There are also a lot of myths, some of which I see being perpetuated here.

Not sure I agree with OTR about Wandsworth schools “sadly aren’t great”. We have some great schools in the borough, and some not so great. The SA intake, like many schools such as Ashcroft, Burntwood, Ernest Bevin, St Cecilias, Ark Putney etc, is very mixed – we are, after all, in a very multicultural place. In my experience, the children at SA behave no differently at the end of the day than children at the schools mentioned above. Stand at West Hill or at Southfields tube to witness going home time at Ashcroft and St Cecilia’s, for example.

Inside the Academy, there is a strong emphasis on discipline, which students largely comply with. There are clear boundaries and if these are broken, sanctions are used. I have to say, and again from experience, that this is done in a warmer, more humane way than at a school such as Ashcroft. Behaviour was poor under a previous leadership team but that has changed and disruption in classes is now few and far between.

There is a very strong desire here to see each child as an individual, academically and personally and to bring out the best in them. Our GCSE students last year came in each breakfast time and stayed for late afternoon booster classes, all because they know their results are so important. And their results bear this out – we rank above a number of schools many would consider to be better academically – and we are non-selective which makes this even more of an achievement.

Unlike an increasing number of local schools, we won't kick a student out at 6th Form because they aren't making the grade. We take a large number of students from local schools who do this and these students go on to achieve excellent results here and go on to great universities, including Oxford and others in the Russell group. For info, some of these students are achieving Bs and they're still not good enough for the other school's 6th Forms - not great for a teenager's self esteem.

In terms of teaching, it is excellent. Proof of this is the school being third in the borough for Progress 8 – the measure a child makes during their time at secondary school. Disregard Harris’s results, as they removed a number of students who weren’t making the grade – google or ask them for more on this.

The leadership team at Southfields is very impressive with a vast amount of experience. It is a very stable team and the whole academy has a real, warm community feel to it. Pastoral care is very good, much better than others I have experience of.

In terms of the website, this has just been relaunched, so maybe you looked when it was still the old one or it was in transition? Do have another look.

I believe that we are the only school in Wandsworth to offer a personal tour at any time of the school day as we have nothing to hide. We give access to the whole site and prospective parents can speak to any student, not just those wheeled out who won't put their foot wrong. We have had a lot of parents through at recent and previous open events and they are amazed at our facilities in comparison with other schools. We have open events next week so perhaps come along to one of those, and then maybe book a personal tour where you can talk to the SEN team etc?

We are one of several SEN bases in Wandsworth and again, in my experience, the best one as we are equipped and willing to deal with children with a wide range of learning difficulties. I know some schools aren’t keen, increasingly, to take SEN students as they are under great pressure to achieve good exam results but the view here is, why should any child be denied equal access to a good education?

In conclusion, and sorry for the essay but I feel very passionate about this, you really should come and have a look so that you can see for yourself and make a decision based on that - not just what's being said here. And I extend a warm invitation to all the other posters on this thread so that you can see first-hand how good what we have on offer really is and maybe change some of those opinions, many of which are unfair and out-dated.

OhTheRoses · 28/09/2017 09:48

SW18 Poster you write a very good and very knowledgeable post. However as a resident of the Borough of Wandsworth from 1982 until 2013, having educated two children whilst living in Wandsworth, and having been a governor of both a primary and secondary school in the borough, 25 years ago in 1992, Southfields Community College was most certainly not the local school of choice. The local schools of choice were then and are now, with the exception of St Cecilia's which has not lived up to expectations to the extent locals might have hoped, outside the borough of Wandsworth.

Our own dd did secondary transfer in 2009 and not one Wandsworth school (Graveny was not a reasonable journey) met our criteria for a place on the common application form. Only two schools met that criteria: one in H&F and one in Westminster - further afield Sutton or Kingston but ludicrous journeys so not included. The criteria were very simple triple science taught as three sciences and good MFL with a classical language also.

Would you perhaps care to confirm how many pupils Southfields sent to Oxbridge or med school in 1992?

imoverlyengaged · 28/09/2017 10:25

@ justabout

There are places at Southfields because it is a school which performs poorly. Locals know this and do not want to send their children there.

Academy chains are good at improving Ofsted ratings - it does not mean the underlying problems change. Harris Battersea and ? Ark Putney (ex Eliot) also get good ratings now but still have issues.

A huge proportion of Wandsworth secondary students are educated outside the system - either privately or at denominational schools outside the borough. Some travel to the grammars.

Applying for an in year transfer puts you in a strong position as there is a lot of movement. In your circumstances I would keep your dd where she is and travel and put her on the waiting list for preferred schools: Graveney, Bolingbroke, Chestnut Grove etc. St Cecilia's is still way better than Southfields. Lots of denominational schools within easy reach if you want/could accept them. Greycoat Hospital is a top choice for MPs of all parties.

Transport links to Clapham Junction are great so you have a lot of choice - Wimbledon, Croydon etc as well as Central London.

I know my kind of attitude makes it more difficult for struggling schools. But who wants their child to be in the vanguard of a social experiment.

MumTryingHerBest · 28/09/2017 10:43

imoverlyengaged There are places at Southfields because it is a school which performs poorly.

OP I think it might be worth looking here:

(bear in mind the provisional performance figures for 2017 should be out shortly)

www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/school/138682?tab=secondary

Their progess 8 for GCSEs is average.
Their progress 8 for A level is above average.

Also look under the Absence and pupil population tab.

However, if the school is undersubscribed, funding may be an issue.

I would advise going to look at the school and speaking to parents with children in the school, if possible.

OhTheRoses · 28/09/2017 11:32

...... and their progress for English Baccalaureate? Ahem.

Peanutbutterrules · 28/09/2017 11:41

There was a stabbing (in the leg - child okay) in 2015 hence the local reputation of the school.

Results look fine, best to visit, and make up your own mind. Once bad incident doesn't define a school but you might want to be sure that measures have been put into place following that incident.

TeenTimesTwo · 28/09/2017 11:52

Not getting into the debate about the school as I know nothing about it.

But re Ebacc.

Some schools get high Ebacc because they force (through option blocking) everyone / almost everyone to do EBacc qualifying subject combinations, which may or may not be to the benefit of the individual pupil.

Other schools are more flexible and won't make it hard to not to History/Geog or an MFL.

So you do need to look behind the EBacc figures (which is why I think that Progress8 is better).

MumTryingHerBest · 28/09/2017 11:53

OhTheRoses In terms of the EBacc:

Chestnut Grove School:

Progress 8 score and confidence interval by subject area: English Baccalaureate slots: -0.18

Attainment 8 score by subject area: English Baccalaureate slots: 13.7

Southfields Academy

Progress 8 score and confidence interval by subject area: English Baccalaureate slots: 0.14

Attainment 8 score by subject area: English Baccalaureate slots: 13.4

How's Bolingbroke doing with the EBacc?

Personally, I didn't even think to look at the EBacc results as I had no idea what subjects my DC would be choosing for GCSEs.

OhTheRoses · 28/09/2017 13:26

As a minimum every child should do English, Maths, Science, a language and a humanity. Surely there is no argument about that.

TeenTimesTwo · 28/09/2017 13:50

OhThe Yes there is.

  1. RE is a humanity but doesn't count for EBacc

  2. For some children an MFL seems entirely pointless. They may never have been abroad, and see no likelihood in doing so. Why should they continue with an MFL and do poorly versus what to them seems like a more useful and achievable subject.

  3. My DD1 has dyspraxia. She ended up dropping History after mocks as it became clear she just couldn't answer the questions, despite how interesting she found the subject. She would have had similar trouble with Geography. (She did get 2 Bs for her 2 MFLs though.)

  4. My DD2 struggles enough with English spelling and grammar. Not surprisingly, she is finding French about as clear as mud.

So, although I agree that EBacc shows a wide base, and should be encouraged for a rounded education, for those less able it may well just be setting them up to fail. So no, I don't believe every child 'should' do EBacc subjects for GCSE.

MumTryingHerBest · 28/09/2017 14:08

OhTheRoses - As a minimum every child should do English, Maths, Science, a language and a humanity.

Some schools encourage DCs to do what they are good at and enjoy.

The EBacc is only relevant if the learning requirement is suited to that DC.

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