Admissions question- how do I do this ethically

[southeastlondonmum]

My daughter attends a great school with a very high FSM in take. She's currently in year 2. My DH wants to move out of London but we have agreed that the best time to do this is at the end of Year 6. Allowing my eldest to complete schooling and enter secondary from year 7. I am keen that if SATS are still around, my eldest sits them at current school. She's bright and they have really challenged her and their results are variable. I am well aware that lots of people rent in catchment to get a good place but our genuine intention would be to live in new area from summer of year 6/7 and we would likely keep London property for business and buy somewhere else. But we wouldn't actually be living there at application deadline. How do I do this?? I am aware it's someway off but I am not sure of how to do this without being unethical

I don't think you can. You have to apply from the address you are resident at, so you would need to move by 31st October of y6.

Personally, I think you should just get on and move now.

If you aren't living in the property when you apply it can't really be right unless you lie on the form. So in effect you are renting a temporary property in order to get a school place. There's another similar thread and most people say it isn't on.

You can't, or rather you can, but the address where your DD normally lives will be the one from which distance (if that is the tiebreaker, not lottery). So if the school is undersubscribed, you'll get a place wherever you live.

If both properties are in London/Surrey, two properties will flag in the pan-London application and you can expect to be investigated.

Is there any particular reason why - given that it's 4 years away - you are already sure that it's not in her interests to move in time to make an uncomplicated application?

LEAS will simply reject applications based on a putative future address (unless you are Armed Forces with a valid postings order or CO's letter), because there is simply no way to tell who is being honest and who is attempting to game the system.

Moving and starting a new school at the same time will be tough for your daughter. I'd move sooner if you possibly can.

Thanks for replies to date. I actually don't want to move at all hence why we are talking about it in future. MyDH does and feels v strongly. We have compromised. We would likely own both properties if that makes any difference. I really don't want to do the system..I saw the other post and this was what promoted the question.
(PS I am aware that for many owning a property is a pipe dream, let alone two. A family tragedy left me an inheritance. I would love to reverse that)

You should move before year 6. Be in place in time to apply.

It would really be better to move in the summer before year 6 - you still get a few more years where you are so still a compromise

Quite apart from the application process it will be easier for your DD to make the big move to secondary knowing some people from primary are going to the same secondary, with some neighborhood friends to fall back on, and without the upheaval of a house and area move at the same time.

Even if SATS are still around when your daughter is in yr 6 they really mean bugger all once you leave primary. (Some will jump on to say it will be how secondaries tream the kids but generally they do their own tests or use MIDYIS tests to do this).

Where do you plan to move to? Bucks for grammar schools?

As others have said to have the best shot of your chosen school unless you are going independent then you'll need to be living there at the beginning of year 6.

No idea where we will move but we are definitely not moving to a grammar school area. I don't like them. Looks like we will have to start moving in Year 5. The comments re SATS were for the school. I'm not bothered but she is likely to do well and it would be good for school to benefit from them

But wouldn't she just do the same SATs (if they are still around) in her new school?

I think you need to consider what would benefit your dd rather than the school. She'd be better starting secondary with at least some Kids she knows from Primary.

Also its irrelevant what you wish the rules were, the rules still apply even if you 2ish they didn't

Some people have advised it's better to complete year 6 and then start secondary fresh. Interesting to hear other views

Our council ask for the council tax code from your bill upon application. This may be the case for you too. I think you'll need to move between year 5 and 6 so that you can put your new address on the application.

Definitely wouldn't worry about y6 sats, complete waste of time. DD went to grammar so counted for nothing for her, the 2 comprehensives don't use the sats results and make children do new tests in July. Some schools cheat in sats so results are not taken seriously around here. Start of year 7 they sit cats.

If you are moving I would move sooner rather than later and certainly before you apply at start of year 6, its year 5 for grammar applications here.

My daughter knew no one at her new school and made new good friends day 1 so if she's sociable that maybe fine but moving on top I think is a bit much so would do it earlier or never.

We did this although we had to sell our house - in the end it took 18 months to sell and we moved half term of year 7. Once we knew we probably wouldn't be in situ by the October admissions deadline we registered dd for the Birmingham grammars exam as places at these schools aren't dependant on where you live. She got a place and was able to commute the longer distance for six weeks. The other option we had was going for a place in a Worcestershire school as they have middle schools. Year 7 is half way through middle school and places come up because one or two kids usually leave at the end of year 6 for grammars/independents. Local people don't take the places as their kids are settled in other middle schools at that point. So that's your other option - move to an area with a different school system. Or move to an area where schools aren't oversubscribed so there's no issue.

Hants is nice, commutable into London if needed, quite a lot of good schools. Fully comprehensive. Pricey though.

OP I think it's perfectly possible to do what you want ethically.

National Offer Day is March 1st. Sats are mid-may. If you move after mid-may you will be a "late applicant" but you will still be able to join waiting lists for your preferred schools and if you move very close to your top preference you could go straight to the top of the list (after March 1st late applicants are treated the same as one-time applicants for waiting list purposes - so ranked by distance or whatever the criteria are).

So long as you move to an area where there is a lot of waiting list movement (common in areas where lots go private) you can be reasonably confident of a place coming up between late May and September.

You need to think about the kind of school you want at secondary level for your child. If they are bright I would want a school that will challenge her to do even better than she does at the moment. The problem is that no matter where you move to in the country, those schools are the schools most parents want their children to go to and they are usually a full school.
Moving at the end of year 6 means that you will miss the normal application round for secondary school, so you will have to place your daughter in a school that you might consider to be not as good as you would wish. Being realistic you have less than a 30% chance of getting a place at the school you would want if you appeal.
To me it is a no-brainer you move anytime from now to at the latest August when your daughter will be finishing year 5. Any time after that will mean you may not be able to apply for the secondary school you would want for your daughter. Appreciate that you are getting advice that the best time to change is at the end of year 6. It probably is, simply in terms of friendship groups etc but that is ignoring what is one of the most important decisions you will make for your daughter, which secondary school they will attend.

I think we probably need to agree where we are moving too (like a rough area would be helpful ) and then look at schools. Ask them questions etc early on about admissions. We have a younger child who would be in Year 3 so quite a lot of primary left to consider

If you move whilst your child is in Year 5 or 6, she will have a chance to develop relationships with some of the children she will be going to secondary school with.

What Admission said.

You can't apply for a school from your new address before you move because you have to give the details of the current school, and if you are moving out of London it will be obvious you aren't commuting for a primary miles away.

Don't move! Buy a holiday cottage somewhere outside London so that your DH can have his peace and quiet.

There are many great secondary schools in London!

My DC would have hated to leave London aged 10 or 11. They were very into it by then. Sure, they enjoy their camping / walking / birdwatching that we do in the countryside at weekends and holidays, but if I had wanted to move them to to a quieter, more rural area I would have had to get them used to it when they were much younger.

But maybe you are considering another city?

We vaguely looked into this as DH wanted out of London and he works outside London. When we looked finding decent schools, a reasonable commute each way for the 2 of us and a nice area / house proved difficult though we were restricted by our job locations. I wasn't entirely keen on the idea of moving and now DD is in a grammar here think its the end of DHs plans as he's very pro grammar.

May well be worth researching areas and schools. My kids were reasonably keen though daughter keener than son who said he would prefer it for weekends. Proved quite difficult having one of each, found some areas with single sex schools. I would go for a big town, anything else would be too much of a move for me at least. Admittedly I was looking for outstanding schools and wasn't completely committed.

Actually if you have the money then I agree with Camper . We moved from a city (actually suburbia but loads of children on our road, lots going on and lots walkable) to a chocolate box village when I was in primary and I never felt at home in the village and always felt a bit isolated. My parents thought moving would give us an idyllic childhood, but tbh I missed having lots of friends to call for and as I grew older had rose tinted glasses about the greater independence I would have had somewhere with a denser population and facilities/ public transport / shopping etc.

A weekend and holidays cottage sounds a better compromise than moving, especially if you can do it sooner.