Advantages and disadvantages of a large school

[BurnTheBlackSuit]

Sorry, another school application question!

I would be very grateful if you could help me decide by telling me what the advantages and disadvantages of a small school (intake about 140) vs a large school (intake about 320) are.

Thank you!

In big schools you're rarely in a sea of hundreds of others. I went to a school with 240 per intake, which back then was MASSIVE. But we were divided into 2 streams" (classes A,B&C,D = Stream 1, Classes E,F,G,H=Stream 2). So For lessons we just mixed with our stream, so a group of just 120, with some tutor type classes with just our "home class" of 30.

We also had a sort of "house" system for mixing with other years, so all of the Yr8 B class would know everyone in Yr9B IYKWIM, so we also had that group for non academic activities.

The Subgroupings made it cosy, but also the option to escape any drama in your own class/stream by hanging out witg friends from the other stream at break time, which made friend drama less stressful since you weren't trapped with the same group all day

That's not my experience at all Rudi, in the big school the teachers made an effort to get to knowi my kids, in the small school they didnt bother. At all. It comes down to school culture not size. And in a school with lots of firms per intake the teachers/staff aren't flitting between them all! I'm my kids big primary the classes were paired up, so they mixed but not always across the whole year, mostly with the class next door, so the teachers of those 2 classes knew 60 kids well and didn't have to try to get to know 120 kids across the whole year well IYKWIM

We deliberately chose the larger school for DS (primary). Much better facilities, clubs and a very active PTA. Nursery - KS2 have their own section of the school, including their own dining room and playground, so it feels much smaller than the village schools we looked at. DS already knows the teachers and assistants by sight and the two-form entry is working in his favour as there one heck of a lot of activities to choose from in each play session. I can't comment directly on SEN provision, but one of his friends has additional needs met with dedicated 1 to 1 assistance and seems to be thriving.

Yes ABC. I think the OP is asking about secondary, but in primary the big big advantage my kids big school had over their small school was that tiny reception kids didn't have to share space and resources with big scary KS2ers, and KS2ers space didn't have to be baby-friendly, being a big school they could duplicate so there was a lovely age appropriate "baby" play ground, and a more daring adventure playground and games area for KS2 That didn't need baby -proofing like it would if they shared their playground with reception. They had separate assemblies with their own key stage so things didn't have to be one size fits all and could be more tailored and age asppropriate. And the lil'un s did nt feel like the lil uns because they were annexed away from the big'un (but mixed for certain things too but that was conscious/planned)

This was supposed to be a secondary topic. A good school is just that and numbers make little difference if the school is well run. Children can be very happy in both. Choose what will suit your child best after you have visited. Just make sure the finances are sound with the smaller school.

My dd has just gone to a school with an intake just shy of 300. A lot of the schools are bigger - a couple around 275 and one about 250 so all fairly big. I think it is the ethos of the school that is important, she certainly hasn't mentioned that it feels massive and I am not quite sure how they work their classes but so far so good. Certainly on the parent evening it seemed every child counted.

Incidentally the lowest intake school in the area is also the worst performing, it isn't necessarily just numbers.

I think it is hard to take a single school in isolation these days. Many are parts of MATs that may mean even if they are smaller than average they can offer some different combinations of options, experiences and opportunities than if standalone.

Wow loads of replies. Lots of information and things to think about when we look round the school's again.

Incidentally, we chose a 'bigger' 2 class per year Primary school because it has more choice of friends (not only reason, but it was a factor).

Rural schools often cannot share resources with another school in the MaT and do stand alone due to geography. Plenty are academy converters too so not necessarily in a MAT.

A school of 320 is not large.

MongerTruffle I think the OP means 320 per year - so about 1600 for the school's year 7-11!

Yes, 320 per year. Plus it has a 6th form.

Also, that was the rough number who were offered a place. I think the PAN is more like 350/355.

The secondary we chose was very small when ds1 started only about 75 per year group. The school has now expanded slightly but probably still only about 500 in the whole school (no sixth form). Many of the things we like about the school may be nothing to do with the size per se but you do get the impression that the staff know all the children, the campus is not overwhelming large. It is a very caring school and does have a family feel about it. Lots to families have several siblings throughout the school and teachers are generally very friendly.
The disadvantages could be a smaller range of gcse subjects and a tighter timetable so some combinations clash so not available. Less big expensive trips, this is not a problem for us as can't afford it anyway but for example the ski trip is every 3 years.
Friendship wise I think it's been fine, everyone kind of knows each other.

For ds (and I) the reality wasn't what we expected.

Whether it's because of the Calibre of school or the fact 1 was an academy i don't know but I can tell you about our experience.

The smaller school (academy) had far fewer support staff and obviously had fewer classes. It seemed obvious that overall funding was lower due to lower children and they couldn't target all pupils. They had less teachers and so cover was often supply or not subject specific teachers - and absense was probably higher than average as ds had a cover teacher at least 3 times a week every week.
The school however did offer a far broader range of gcse subjects (26).

The larger school has been fantastic for ds. They have over 1000 pupils with about 215 per year. They have a huge amount of support staff from subject specific to individual keyworkers.
There is a higher number of teachers and due to a higher number of classes per year they seem to split the children up far easily into ability groups. Some subjects have class sizes of 15 for top/bottom set to really target pupils ability. There is more teachers in the school yet ds rarely has cover teacher and if he does it's usually one who teaches the subject or is the set cover for this subject and so lessons continue from the last one rather than teacher just doing 'something' iyswim?

My ds has ASD and so we chose the smaller school thinking it would be better for him. They just didn't have the staff levels or facilities to meet his needs though and all Sen support was offered after school and run by teachers. So those without additional needs could go home and those with couldn't!

Personally our experience was the opposite of what we expected but that won't necessarily be the norm - because private schools are small!

I attended a secondary school with 13 form classes per year, 4 'houses', 3 forms in each house. Mixed primarily with kids in same 'house' or kids of same ability- classes streamed from Year 9. Pastoral care high and never really had any disadvantages from the size. Didn't really realise the size either iyswim

It seems to boil down to
Small schools are more personal vs Large schools more opportunities

As a general rule I'd say that is true.
But you have to look at the individual school in question.

We had a choice between two very large (bigger than 10 form entry) schools for secondary. I was at a 3 form entry. It seemed ridiculous. But we ended up choosing the bigger one because they handled it much better. The other said lots of times "oh we're too big to bother with antibullying/SEN/anything that might be treating the children as individuals".

My dc's large juniors tends to win a lot of sports things in the area and there's a lot off (natural) huffing that they should do because they're twice the size of any other. However I know that they actually pick the teams from those who bother to turn up to after school or lunch time practices. So my non-sporty dd1 got chosen for quite a few things because she'd go to them, whereas my sportier ds doesn't because he doesn't go to them.

My dd's school has an intake of 210 for each year group. I've never really thought of whether it's a large or small school? I'm guessing from reading others it's a 'in the middle' intake .

I have no real experience of larger, except when applying I went to look around a much sought after school that is nearer 300 intake. The Headmaster asked me what Primary School we were at and he declared that he'd never had any students from there and we probably wouldn't get a place.
I know for a fact that last year they had 10 pupils from the Primary and have had a steady stream for years. It was a minor thing but it didn't fill me with confidence that he had a handle on his pupils.

I prefer smaller schools as its less intimidating for the child and teachers will know them better but also obviously you need to consider everything.

My preference was for a smaller school as I thought my shy eldest would get swamped in a bigger one. But so much depends on how the individual schools arrange things, the curriculum they offer, and the facilities they each have.

Bigger schools are likely to have more opportunities for extra curricular stuff, but that could work both ways. It would be very frustrating, I imagine, if you were good at hockey/drama/the flute etc but didn't have the chance to play in the school team /orchestra or take part in the school play because there were so many others slightly better than you who were competing for a small number of opportunities.

Have a DD at a 240 entry all girls school. Best thing for her is that it's so easy to find a like-minded group of friends. She's never had trouble finding friends but she dislikes relationship dramas and (so far) has never really fallen out with a friend. In her words "I leave the cool group alone and let them play their games" This might have been harder at a smaller school.