Need to talk to school - maths / early entry - advice welcome

[Sadik]

Sorry, this is going to be a bit long.
School (as appears to be standard in Wales from friends elsewhere + posts on here) are very into entering pupils early for GCSEs. Yr 11 dd took English language and Welsh language + 1 module from each science at the end of yr 10.

Now school (specifically new headmaster dd is 99% sure as her teacher has spoken against this in the past) wants to enter ALL yr 11 students for intermediate tier maths-numeracy in November.

Maths is one of dd's strongest subjects, she's in an extension set that is meant to be all pupils aiming for A/A*, and comfortably at the top end still (she has her issues elsewhere ). I cannot for the life of me see what benefit there is to her (or school, but that's another question) for entering her for an exam where the highest mark she can get is a B. I suppose my first question is, can we flat refuse for her to be entered? And before we get to that stage, any helpful points we can make?

There's also an issue with Welsh lit, but will leave that for the moment . . .

Don't know Welsh system, but that sounds crazy, as don't retakes have to be put on university application forms, so retaking at the higher tier would count as a retake? (or is that only for A levels?).

Bonkers to waste time preparing for and sitting an exam that will only have to be resat, when she should be learning new material. Expensive too.

I'd want to know exactly why, and I'd be very keen to ensure that she would also be sitting the correct tier at the correct time, properly prepared-for.

Thankfully I've spoken to dd's head of year, who also taught her maths in yrs 9 & 10, and she agrees it's a daft idea not sensible.

It all sounds quite painful though - dd has had 4 or 5 maths lessons to date, and says she's back to finishing the work by around mid-point in the lesson and sitting reading a book for the rest of it. (She had same teacher in yrs 7 & 8 and learnt through experience back then that asking for more work resulted in another sheet of identical problems on the same topic.) Oh well, only 8 more months to go . . .!

Oh no, how disappointing that she's got a mediocre teacher. Please knock the reading a book on the head, she's in Y11 and needs to spend her maths lessons actually doing maths, regardless of what the teacher allows. Are there any textbooks in the classroom that she could work on trickier problems from, for revision of other topics already covered?

I hope she's planning on Maths A-level :) If so, there are plenty of things she could be doing.

I know, it's really a shame for this last year. The one positive thing is that she had a really excellent teacher for part of last year (after they split the top set) who inspired her & I'm sure she'll take maths A level. She also loves physics particularly the maths-y bits of it & has a fantastic teacher there.

It's difficult getting her to ask for other work - she has massive social anxiety issues & also issues around appearing to be showing off. The reading is her way of trying to communicate with the teacher - she says she's right in the front of the front row & is being very obvious (how true that is I don't know).

I still need to fight on another front re. exams (why is she being entered for literature in Welsh when she takes no other subjects through that medium & we were assured in yr 10 that it would just be a case of taking the language exam over 2 yrs . . . ) so am already being that parent rather too much to want to hassle there.

Could you email the teacher? DD is reading a book in your lessons, is there a textbook she could do maths work from independently instead? Or buy her one if school won't cooperate. If your DD is happy to get a reading book out, then why not a maths one.

Maths teacher will not know about the literature thing, so you won't be that parent.

if she's really stuck with reading a book in class, have you seen the UKMT publications?

They don't do emails at all sadly - essentially the only way to communicate is phoning / going into the school office, and 99 x out of 100 it's head of year who calls back, regardless of who you ask for.

If things don't improve I think maths-y reading books definitely the way to go - any recommendations welcome esp if they're likely to be in the library. (DD has liked Simon Singh's books esp the ciphers/codes one, & Carlo Rovelli's 'journey to quantum gravity' on the physics front.)

I meant a maths textbook, tbh! When she sits A-level, she'll need her algebra to be top-notch and that won't happen by reading. I'd recommend the AQA Further Maths GCSE textbook for any kid wanting something a bit more challenging. It goes into more detail on GCSE topics as well as covering other areas, and it's pretty small so not a problem to carry around.

Otherwise Uncle Petros and Goldbach's Conjecture by Apostolos Doxiadis is wonderful maths-based fiction, or Marcus du Sautoy does good maths non-fiction. Things to Make and Do in the Fourth Dimension by Matt Parker is fun.

I think reading a maths textbook would count as overly pointed & too likely to attract attention in dd's view :(

I'm torn - half of me thinks if they're covering the A* topics (which I assume they are) then presumably she'll have all the underpinning she needs for A level - the other half that as you say she really ought to be doing maths for all of her maths lessons.

The tricky element is that in the past when we've asked for more challenging work, this teacher in particular has slowed her down by giving her very wordy questions & telling her she has to write out the question before answering it - very effective as her writing is terrible . . . and then if that is questioned we/she gets told that handwriting practice is a good thing . . . (primary used to do exactly the same :( )

Oh FGS actively holding back a talented and hardworking female mathematician by giving her handwriting practice? He's a lazy arse and a bad teacher.

Fuck him and what he thinks, this is about your DD and her maths. I'd go in and tell him that's what will be happening if your DD doesn't want to do it herself. He's clearly so lazy that he'd be happy to have the matter taken out of his hands (as he is with her reading a book).

There is a big leap between GCSE and A-level maths, even in Wales. If she wants to do well, she needs to hit the ground running with as much maths under her belt as she can get. She needs to be persuaded that its in her long-term interests.

Also in Wales, I think I recognise some of the usernames from similar threads! We have had the same battles, my DS took his maths numeracy and mathematics, eng lan gcses and a single module for each of the sciences at the end of y10 last year.
He was due to take his welsh first lang gcse at the same time but I insisted he was withdrawn, he would have been lucky to scrape a C and this was unfair on him. School were not happy but did relent in the end. I am certain that I have become that parent.
The early entry thing is pants!

Yep, Peace we've definitely been on the same threads before!

All a bit more together here, I think dd had got in a real tizzy and taken me with her. Firstly, I'm reminding myself that this time last year we were fighting to keep her in school & in as many lessons as possible, so worrying about exam entries is definitely an improvement! (And remembering how great school always are at supporting her when she's failing to cope with the rest of the world.)

Welsh lit issue also seems to be sorted - she's not 'bad' enough to be in the language resit group (only those who didn't get a C) but school is happy for her to study lit but not sit the exam. (and if her written welsh suddently makes a spectacular leap all can be rethought)

Maths - have talked it through with dd, and we're going to give it a fortnight for the group / teacher to settle down, and if things don't improve I'm going to persuade ex-H to go in and talk to HoY so at least it's a different face & not me again

I think the idea of just reading in a maths lesson is pretty dreadful!

But if it's likeky to keep happening in the short term, one book I would recommend is 'Alex's Adventures in Numberland'

www.amazon.co.uk/Alexs-Adventures-Numberland-Alex-Bellos/dp/1408809591?tag=mumsnetforum-21

I agree this teacher sounds terrible.

I have no experience of the Welsh system but I do have a dd who would struggle with the social aspect of this (and who has always found maths easy)

Could she use the time for other homework? Maybe then the other students wouldn't think she was showing off. It could then free up her evenings to do some extension maths work away from prying eyes!

Just to report back - I have set ex-H (ie dd's father) on the problem - he has come up with a couple of suitable looking text-book-type books and is going to get in touch with HoY if things don't look up in a week or so (very politely in a 'just checking that they're starting slowly but will be moving up a gear soon) type way.

Meanwhile dd reports that one of her classmates after quizzing her is not taking the exam in November either - and also made slightly pointed comments to the teacher when told to read after finishing a test halfway through the lesson.

(Unfortunately dd says she can't move closer to the other couple of pupils who are most likely feeling exactly the same as her & join forces because (a) she currently sits with a very gossipy friend and (b) they are both boys and therefore (c) regardless of any reason she gives the entire year will be given to understand she fancies at least one and probably both of them )