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Secondary education

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Original poster

Choking on costs fo sxith form education

127 replies

Piggywaspushed · 07/09/2017 17:31

So DS1 has come home from college today with a book list. Books are marked essential or recommended.

The essential books alone amount to £150 just for year 1!!

I teach English and we do always ask students to buy set texts so they can annotate them - but his list includes £35 text books. This is in addition to the £180 per term bus fares.

Is this in line with everyone's experiences of a 21st century education?

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Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 08/09/2017 19:47

No jj I did understand yours was at a state school. I just thought it was funny that your lovely utopian vision extended to the idea that all state schools funded education in its widest sense Smile

I teach in a state secondary and, to be fair, my colleagues are shocked by this level of expected expenditure.

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Sgtmajormummy · 08/09/2017 19:51

The Irish State Education system must be doing something right- in 2015 it was rated 15th in the world compared to the UK's 20th place.link

Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 08/09/2017 20:05

Oh yes, not doubting that in many ways - the buying all your own books thing was the specific thing I was commenting on.

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Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 08/09/2017 20:06

ps was it really against the UK? Scotland, England and Wales are usually separate.

I shall peruse the link!

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PettsWoodParadise · 08/09/2017 21:54

Not feeling remotely nostalgic about the maths books in my comprehensive in the 1980s that still referred to pounds, shillings and pence! My dear father did some extra shifts on the print and donated five copies to the school (I never had my own copy) to try and make it fair. It made a world of difference, especially as I was the second year of GCSE. Some things don't change perhaps?

Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 09/09/2017 07:48

Hmmm... maybe but I know I definitely never had to buy any books as we had those sticky labels in the front with all the previous owners in the front and we had tow rite in what condition they were in. It was a source of great excitement as to whether any good looking boys had had the book before us! The books were usually pretty ancient!

I started teaching in the 90s and after a few years the controversy was asking A level students to buy their own copies of the set texts for English so I think it's been a gradual process to this point.

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allegretto · 09/09/2017 07:54

School books for my 12 year old cost €300 last year!

Danglingmod · 09/09/2017 08:05

We had to buy our own copies of English set texts for GCSEs and A level -late 80s/early 90s otherwise how would you annotate them? Textbooks for other subjects provided.

Same as above in my (state) school now and ds's (private) school.

Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 09/09/2017 08:17

I do think English has always been a bit of an exception but I didn't buy mine in the late 80s. We just learnt in different ways : lots of note making and chapter summaries. Sixth form was the first time we had to buy A4 paper and folders, I think.
DS is not doing English. He is doing French and Spanish - one thing not on the list is the set texts for those two! The study guide for them are, however. It is the textbook thing that a) sticks in my throat and b) is the expensive bit.
To be honest, I might have bought some of the textbooks anyway to support his learning : it's being told they are 'essential' that is quite galling!

allegretto - guessing that's Ireland again?

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Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 09/09/2017 08:21

Annotation definitely started as a 'requirement' in the early 90s with the move to 100% coursework and open text exams.

As a teacher it annoys me how many fellow teachers still rely on this as a teaching strategy and encourage over annotation of texts when English ahs predominantly become closed text exams or open text but clean copies. A level students are now routinely having two buy tow sets of their set texts as a result! Time to change teaching and learning styles, I reckon! It is a very hard thing to unlearn though and I am guilty of it myself...

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Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 09/09/2017 08:21

Apologies for typos!

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Danglingmod · 09/09/2017 08:28

My GCSE/A level English were 100% exam (but maths had some coursework...strange...) and closed book for 2 papers/open but clean book for 1 paper (I think). Degree all closed book...

I bet your ds's dept has tonnes of the MFL set lit texts kicking around back from when lit was on the A level (I didn't have to buy my French novels/plays either) and are delighted to be using them again!

Danglingmod · 09/09/2017 08:29

I don't understand why annotation would be a bad thing in a closed book exam scenario? The annotation is for learning/revision/essay writing purposes not to use in the exam?

Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 09/09/2017 09:16

Depends on how it's done and how reliant students become on those annotations , I guess. But that's a whole other debate!

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Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 09/09/2017 09:17

bet your ds's dept has tonnes of the MFL set lit texts kicking around back from when lit was on the A level (I didn't have to buy my French novels/plays either) and are delighted to be using them again!

I suspect you may be right!

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BeyondThePage · 09/09/2017 09:33

So far for DD we have spent
£90 on English set texts,
£30 on stationery (not even notebooks/folders provided),
£60 a month bus,
£260 uniform,
£35 for "teambuilding" day out,
£50 for music day trip to the opera,
£200 for art 3 day trip to Cornwall,
(plus £45 sketchbook, pencils, pastels, watercolours etc)
and have 3 "save the date" for upcoming trips.

Certainly is costing a bit more than expected for her 6th form.

Laniakea · 09/09/2017 10:36

dd's physics teacher has given them all a ring binder & dividers because he thinks it is terrible that it is all so expensive vs her biology teacher who made them each print out the spec which cost dd £3. We pay a £50 friends of the school thing each year plus a compulsory sponsored event (next week argh) which ends up costing another £20+. You think they could take the cost of giving them each a copy of the spec out of that.

Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 09/09/2017 12:12

It has all got a bit silly!

I have to say I am a bit surprised that parents expect folders and paper to be provided : that's the one thing I expect to pay for (and in a surprise move, DS wants to go shopping this weekend for pens, folders and a bag! He seems to have evolved form the boy who shoved a half eaten bic in his pocket)

Printing the spec seems a bizarre command!!

DS isn't a trip type but I suspect DS2 will come home form his new school clutching various trip letters soon.

One thing DS's college have done is out £10 credit on a a photocopying card : but after that they have to top it up so I will probably do that on the sly at my own work if it's loads.

I do wonder if any research has ever costed the average spend for a sixth form state education .

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Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 09/09/2017 12:13

The physics teacher does sound a sweetie!

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Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 09/09/2017 12:14

I give my sixth form classes exercise books, but that is largely because my A level subject attracts disorganised boys.

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LoniceraJaponica · 09/09/2017 15:39

I'm surprised that some parents expected the school to buy lever arch files and refill pads. We had to provide our own when I was at school on the 1970s.

My advice is to avoid the cheap own brand stuff as it just doesn't last.

DD is doing 2 sciences and all her homework is set online, so we get through a lot of printer paper and ink.

The big expense though is a geography trip to New York.

allegretto · 09/09/2017 15:46

allegretto - guessing that's Ireland again?

Italy.

Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 09/09/2017 15:50

OK _ nut not the Uk!

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Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 09/09/2017 15:52

That''s the thing : schools seemed to have upped the ante on trips too!!

My DS doesn't do Film but at his college the film dept goes to NYC (at my school e go for a day to Warner Bros in Hertfordshire...) !

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Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 09/09/2017 15:52

Sorry the above was meant to say but not the UK !

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