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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

Sorry, no open evening this year (unless you're in our special club)

29 replies

daycounting · 04/09/2017 09:31

An oversubscribed secondary in my area normally has a big and very busy Open Evening each Autumn. This year they've announced they won't be having one, though it will still be possible to book on one of a very limited number of tours during the school day as an alternative.

In the meantime, Year 6 parents at neighbouring (and former feeder) primaries (all leafy) have been invited to a talk by the Headteacher of the secondary saying "This meeting will provide you with an early opportunity to discuss matters of mutual concern and interest about the process of secondary transfer and the induction of Year 7 students."

I've heard they held similar meetings in previous years (in addition to the Open Evening) and it was basically a preview of the Headteacher's Open Evening speech, but with more opportunities to ask questions.

Is this sort of favouritism allowed? My gut feel is it's probably completely legal, but surely it's a bit dodgy?

OP posts:

Ladymuck · 04/09/2017 09:41

I suspect that it is done at the request of of the feeder primaries - far easier to have most of your Year 6s out on one particular day, than spread over a number.

Original poster

daycounting · 04/09/2017 10:18

No, it's an evening meeting, for parents not kids. And they're no longer feeder schools - the feeder school system was dropped before it became an academy a few years ago.

OP posts:

DizzyDandelion · 04/09/2017 10:22

I suspect trying to be secretly selective in an informal sort of way.
Nasty but not unusual...

BubblesBuddy · 04/09/2017 10:27

So what is the criteria for getting into the school? Are these primaries in catchment? Are the vast majority of the pupils likely to come from these primaries? Do they think only a handful of places will be available outside these schools, based on their knowledge of operating their admission system? I would take a tour on a working day. You will see more. Is your child likely to get in based on the criteria? Leafy lane makes no different unless these areas are catchment. Do you live in catchment? Are many places this year likely to go to siblings? You will not know that, but it could be a factor. You have to look at the admissions criteria to see why the evening is structured this way. However they will have to follow their published admissions criteria so who goes to what won't make any difference in the end. Are you certain they have not reeastsblished feeder schools? Is it a religious school?

BubblesBuddy · 04/09/2017 10:30

Secretly selective? The admissions criteria cannot be changed that quickly. They must apply what is currently on the web site regarding admissions. That could have changed for 2018 and the OP must check that.

RedSkyAtNight · 04/09/2017 11:10

The geography of our area is such that when DS's school was oversubscribed there was only 1 or 2 children in each entry year (of 240) who did not go to one of the neighbouring primaries. If OP's area used to have a feeder system, something similar may well apply. Presumably OP can always ask to go and view the school?

DizzyDandelion · 04/09/2017 12:12

I feel it is about encouraging leafy school parents to subscribe to their school and sort of hoping other 'less favoured' parents from 'other' schools won't bother. Message seems clear to me...

Original poster

daycounting · 04/09/2017 12:35

The criteria are now distance only - and have been since the feeder system was dropped.

The cut-off distances are small-ish but not so small that they don't overlap other primaries' admissions areas, and in any case its outer London so a lot of people move in and out of the area all the time and can't always get places at the nearest primaries.

OP posts:

DizzyDandelion · 04/09/2017 12:37

So what is your gut reaction/ feelings about situation op?

MsPassepartout · 04/09/2017 12:40

Do you have to show an invite to get into the special talk for parents from former feeder schools?

Or could you just turn up and pretend your DC goes to school X if anyone asks?

Although I'm inclined to agree that you'll probably see more on a tour during a normal school day.

Venusflytwat · 04/09/2017 12:43

Just turn up and bluff it.

Also ask on here, FB groups etc for local opinions of the school.

And then apply as usual.

grasspigeons · 04/09/2017 12:43

If its a school you want and you know the time and location of the special club I would just turn up.

If you feel that a group of parents from your current school are interested I would call in advance and say 'x primary will be attending also as we are likely to get in on your current admission criteria'

They can always call you and more clearly explain why you are being excluded!

BrieAndChilli · 04/09/2017 12:45

I guess if they are that over subscribed then they probably know that almost all of the new students will come from the local schools, they then have scheduled tours for the very small numbers of children from outside these schools to be able to have a look around.
If you have never been to an open evening before you have no idea if 500 Parents went to the loca feeder schools evening and only 5 went to the general open evening!!

TeenTimesTwo · 04/09/2017 13:15

I take 'secretly selective' to mean encouraging applications from the type of families you want, and discouraging those from those you don't want.

So inviting parents from particular nice schools (but not others) to hear talks.
Or saying 'I think the academic focus of our school might not be suitable for your SN child'
Or running a us from nice-area A, but not from not-so-nice-B even though it is closer

One talk I went to, had lots of focus on results and high achievers, but nothing at all about support for the strugglers - doesn't exactly encourage strugglers to apply does it?

TeenTimesTwo · 04/09/2017 13:16

running a bus !

DizzyDandelion · 04/09/2017 14:34

Spot on TeenTimesTwo....
You can even make your website a bit off putting as well.
I know one that just shows orchestral type shots and the like...
You can create an image of what child is expected at a school in many subtle and not so subtle ways...

TeenTimesTwo · 04/09/2017 14:45

And the ever prevalent expensive complicated uniform, so not just 'white shirt, black trousers or skirt' but logoed purple shirts, logoed skirts and trousers, 7 different types of shirt for PE etc.

nocampinghere · 04/09/2017 15:21

hmmm i can see why the secondary does it tbh

i went to our local secondary open evening last year and there must have been over 1000 people. It was chaos, a crush. Most of DD's class were there, funnily enough most of those that I saw had no hope of ever getting in as were way out of catchment. However it is the best school locally (by a mile) and I think people like to just go and see the gold standard / use it as a benchmark for the private schools they're considering.

How many will be applying from your primary with a realistic chance of getting in? Ask for your own parents evening?

BubblesBuddy · 04/09/2017 15:47

If it is distance to get in, it's distance! It will have looked after, Sen and named on statement and possibly sibling priority above that. So it makes not one jot of difference what primary children attend. Only those who meet the criteria get in. If you don't live close enough, you don't. They seem to be doing this to manage numbers.

At the grammar schools around me, the world and his wife turn up. About 20% max get in. You really see more by making an appointment and I really agree with the benchmark comment. If they do their own admissions, they may want realistic applications to cut down admin. If hundreds fly kites, what is the point?

Most people aspire to a good school and expect to see a range of ethnicity, opportunities and the usp of the school as well as data. I do expect to see an orchestra picture because it shows aspiration. The majority of parents aspire to something good. Just showing pictures of classrooms is boring. Showing sport, music, art, drama, trips abroad etc shows you want more for your pupils. It is not designed to put people off but to say look at what you can achieve here! All schools should have this attitude in my view and it cuts no-one out. It may even show children what they can do instead of just bumping along.

DizzyDandelion · 04/09/2017 15:54

Nothing wrong with the odd ukele group or electric guitar as well!
I know what I mean anyway...

TeenTimesTwo · 04/09/2017 15:58

Yes Bubbles but if a school puts off 'less desirable' people from applying to them at all, then they won't get in, even if they would have qualified.

We qualify for any school we fancy, even the ridiculously oversubscribed ones 10 miles away. One of our local schools however, seems much more welcoming for kids with SpLD, pastoral needs etc, so that's the one we picked. The other has been heard to make statements like 'we offer a grammar school curriculum' even though it is pretty much exactly the same as the school we went for in subjects offered! You can see who they are after.

Looneytune253 · 04/09/2017 16:03

I would imagine, roughly, the feeder schools are the ones within the 'catchment' distance that's all. Our secondary goes into the local 'feeder' primaries and gives them a planner for y6, sends teachers in for certain subjects, coaches children in for transition days as well as other themed days. The allocations are still made on postcode but the feeder schools are generally oversubscribed too so unless you've moved you're within catchment for secondary school too. I think it makes sense for the secondary school to concentrate on the local children. If you live within catchment I would recommend you call the school and ask to join in with a tour.

Fresh8008 · 04/09/2017 17:45

Whats the point in the school having an open evening for several hundred touring parents who are mostly to far from the school to ever get in.

Sounds much more sensible to invite all those within distance and likely to get in. Don't see how this in any way affects actual admissions.

BubblesBuddy · 05/09/2017 01:17

TeenTimesTwo: No-one qualifies for any school they fancy, unless all the schools have spaces and are under-subscribed. As you say they are over-subscribed and 10 miles away, you clearly do not qualify for those ones because you live too farf away and nearer children get the places. It is always best to read who has actually got into a school over the last few years. If it is distance, it will tell you the distance that qualified. If it was 2 miles away, so be it.

If you wish to choose a school based on the criteria you list, then that's fine, isn't it? Other people have different criteria and maybe do aspire to a grammar school curriculum. Although, how that differs in Y7 from any other school is beyond me, except perhaps for Latin. Parents can then look at the schools that provide an ethos they subscribe to. Exactly as you did.

You do not have to compete to get into these schools, because you want something different and can get it. I do not see why your views trump those of other parents who want something else for their children. It's horses for courses isn't it? You seem to have a chip on your shoulder in that you perceive you are not wanted, but complain about the schools that you do not want as being elitist. If you are happy with your choice, you are happy. I really cannot see why you are complaining.

TeenTimesTwo · 05/09/2017 08:22

We de facto qualify for any school we fancy as we live in a non selective area and my DC are adopted. Unless there are 200+ children who live closer with an EHCP or who are LAC/ex-LAC then we qualify.
Absolutely some people do aspire to a 'grammar school curriculum'. My point with respect to the particular school in question stating this, is in fact its curriculum at the time was no different to the neighbouring school. So I feel that what it was doing to some extent was the gently pushing the less academic away from them to the neighbouring school. This in time would mean they would be able to boast they were 'better' due to better GCSE results. To some extent that has now stopped due to progress 8.
I am absolutely not complaining about the school we chose, it is fantastic. What I am complaining about is some other schools in my general area who for example, rather than improving their dyslexia provision, just make it known to people who enquire that it isn't very good and maybe the child would be better elsewhere ...

It is the 'secretly selective' bit I am concerned about, where schools consciously put off kids who might be harder to get good results from.

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