Daughter kicked out of 6th form **Title edited by MNHQ**

[Dollytwoshoes]

My daughter has been told she can not return to her complete her psychology A level because she failed her AS. Through out year 12 she's been on target for a B's.They have advised her to do applied science 1/2 A level (whatever this means) instead. Is this because this won't be published in the league tables? I've put in an formal complaint and asking to see governors. Is the head acting lawfully with my daughters best interests at heart. Has anyone else had to deal with this?

A U does need to go on her UCAS form.

All exam results have to be declared on UCAS applications. If you don't and the university finds out, your offer could be withdrawn.

I really wouldn't advise 4 A Levels. I did 4 rather than dropping one at AS and I got 4 As at AS, it was a massive mistake and cost me an Oxbridge place. Universities will make offers based on the best 3 A Levels so she would be much better off focusing on her best 3 next year and dropping the weakest grade. Even with the remark she's only on a D. Doing 4 A Levels gives you 33% more work to do than everyone else and in most schools about 40-50% less free time in school to do it in. In most cases IME doing 4 turns out to be a mistake even for students with all As at AS. Saying she should drop one subject isn't the same as kicking her out. I think she should take their advice.

DS1 did 4 A levels and did extremely well......but it was such hard work.
Relentless.

He needed 3 As to get to his chosen university. He got A*, A, A, B. Looking back, maybe he should have dropped one?

I'm assuming his AS grades were very strong? Obviously it worked out well for him but 2 As and an A is treated more favourably than an A and 3 As. Even though the latter is harder work and worth more UCAS points. With the exception of very bright kids doing further maths I never recommend 4. Its better for the school's ALPS score if they do 4 but rarely better for the student.

Mine ended up with A* BB.

At AS he got ccdd.

Kids change.

Ds school (normal comp) says you need a pass to continue. His gf failed AS biology and is dropping it and repeating year 12 with different subjects including a Btec.

Ccd is fine at AS. A fail is fairly conclusive imo.

I've seen kids make huge improvements from AS to A Level but that's far harder for them to do if they try to continue with 4 as they have more work to do and less free time to do it in. Dropping one and concentrating on getting the highest possible grade in the 3 you keep on like your DS did is much more sensible.

Dumbledore yes, he got A, A, A, B at AS.

His grammar school also,has a policy of excluding students if their AS grades are poor. It will be interesting to see if the St. Olaves case will affect other schools.

So much about this doesn't make sense.

Firstly governors are not going to care about one parent kicking up a fuss. Be prepared to be ignored.

Unless every child in the class failed then there is no problem with the teaching. Its about time your daughter took responsibility for herself. The AS is an accurate picture of how she would perform in the A2 exam. If she were allowed to continue and failed again then you would be complaining that she wouldn't get into uni.

There's also something very fishy about the remark. Its been sent off and returned very quickly. Two grades is also absurd. Two marks would be a stretch.

Also if your daughter has three other subject and they are offering her a back up AS so she has something else to put on her UCAS she's been treated pretty well.

No offence OP, but you are being that parent.

That seems to be a very fast review/remark of the paper!

My year (4 years ago), the psychology papers had a fault with the marking which meant I (and the rest of the class) went up 2 grades. hmmm....AQA really need to pull their socks up if this is happening every year......

How has the paper been remarked if you have requested the script back? You aren't able to see the paper if it gets remarked as that would allow you to again question the marking.

However, I am still shocked the school advised her to drop the subject rather than realising obviously something had gone wrong with the marking. Being marked a fail when it was (assumed?) a D grade is awful.

bobbiepin
DD had a GCSE re-marked and it moved by 18% .....

We have sent off remarks straight after results day and had them back before the start of the next academic year.

We have also had papers go up by a few grades.

Yes I saw about the legal challenge and wondered if it would mean a lot of schools would now have to change their rules

Based on what I have seen so far, I doubt the legal challenge to St Olave's would have succeeded if it had gone to court. The lawyers acting for the parents were arguing that kicking children out after the first year of a two year course is an illegal exclusion. If the children were of compulsory school age they would have a case. However, once you reach sixth form you are no longer of compulsory school age. I would have expected the school to argue that it has simply set entrance requirements for the second year of sixth form and the pupils have failed to achieve the necessary standard. If they put forward that argument I would have expected the courts to back the school.

The logical extension of the argument put forward by the parents in the St Olave's case is that schools would have to admit all Y11 pupils to sixth form regardless of their GCSE results. I think the courts would recognise that as clearly ridiculous.

If the parents had argued that St Olave's was setting an unreasonably high bar for entry to Y13 they might have succeeded but, in my view, the illegal exclusion argument was bound to fail.

Dollytwoshoes

If she got a U at AS level I am not surprised the school don't want her to continue with the subject. I don't think the St Olave's challenge helps you. And it is unlikely you have a case against the school regarding the grades given by your daughter's teachers. Rather than going in with all guns blazing and talking about legal challenges, I think you would be better advised to point to the fact that she was a B grade student, say that she didn't take this public exam seriously (which, I'm afraid, was rather silly, to say the least) and see if they will show some leniency.

The legal age for leaving education , in whatever form, is now 18?

It would have been an exclusion, 6th form and nursery classes are expressly included as school classes in the statutory guidelines.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachmentdata/file/641418/201708311ExclusionStattguidanceWebb_version.pdf

Page 4

The legal age for leaving education , in whatever form, is now 18

Compulsory school age has not changed. It is still the end of the school year in which the pupil reaches the age of 16. There is a separate legal requirement that young people remain in education or training until they reach the age of 18.

It would have been an exclusion

I don't believe the courts would agree.

Yes, the rules on exclusions apply to sixth forms. But that is not the point I was making. If you take the argument that this is an exclusion to its logical conclusion, any school with a sixth form must allow all its Y11 pupils to enter sixth form regardless of their GCSE results. So a pupil who fails all their GCSEs can demand to be admitted to sixth form.

In reality, the sixth form is a separate beast because the pupils are no longer of compulsory school age. Refusing to take a Y11 pupil into Y12 is not an exclusion. It means they have failed to meet the entry requirements for Y12. I believe the courts would take the same view about the transition from Y12 to Y13. The school can set entry requirements for Y13 and refuse to admit those who fail to meet those requirements. Provided the entry requirement for existing pupils is the same as for external pupils wanting to enter the relevant year group (as required by the Admissions Code) and provided the entry requirements are reasonable I believe the courts would say that this is legitimate.

prh , are you in education at all? Because that view is just nonsense!

Student choose a range of options at 16+ , one of which may be to stay at school. They will find the sixth form provider, with guidance form many sources, which best suits their ability and needs.

To argue tye are being excluded when many school only take students up to 16 is plainly ridiculous.

Year 12 to 13 has never been a leaving point in English education, other than by choice.

I suspect they would actually have got round it be saying they assisted the students to stay in education by finding alternative options for them and working with neighbouring education providers.

It would have been fascinating if it had gone to court. A lot of it would hang on how explicit their policies are : lawyers would have been poring over their entry requirements and their exclusion policies.

No point Fighting them...best she leaves and goes to college .plenty of courses leading to uni at local colleges...all students will of been told the grades they needed to continue the second yr...plenty of my daughters friends left A levels to continue a different course at college

Year 12 to 13 has never been a leaving point in English education, other than by choice

Rubbish. And I know exactly what I am talking about.

If you are a pupil in Y11 at a school with a sixth form you do NOT have any automatic right to proceed to Y12 at that school. The school is entitled under the Admissions Code to set entry requirements for Y12. I have never come across a school that does not do so. If you fail to meet those entry requirements you will not be admitted to Y12. That is not an illegal exclusion. And if you fail to meet the entry requirements for any other school in the area with a sixth form you won't be able to proceed to Y12. It is not necessarily the pupil's choice whether or not to proceed to Y12.

^ this is correct.... you would be surprised the amount of students I teach that fail their gcse's and expect to stay on. If you can't pass the gcse's you won't pass the a-levels!

prh
Admission into year 12 is indeed a clear break point
nobody is arguing with that
but transfer from 12 to 13 is not .....
which is what the current case is about

But I am talking about moving from year 12 into 13 prh so you are being obtuse... no idea why.

You were the one that first raised compulsory school leaving age, which is exactly why schools can set entry requirements for year 12. However, school with lower ability profiles are expected to provide courses which suit their intake spread in sixth form.

And instead of telling me something is rubbish can you explain why I am wrong that year 12 into 13 has never been a normal, natural leaving point?

A levels are two year courses (in fact now more so than they have been of late ) . Students who pursue one year post 16 courses may well leave after year 12, but those doing any two year courses expect to pursue a two year course with the same provider.

Anyhoo, this has derailed the thread nicely!

Every single sixth form I know of requires students to get certain grades at the end of year 12 in order to progress into year 13. It's explained very clearly at enrolment into year 12. If you get 3 x U at AS there is no point continuing to year 13 and you will be asked to leave. That's normal everywhere surely?