Economics vs Business A Level

[Piggywaspushed]

The backstory to this is rather long but it involves DS1 not being able to pursue the subjects he wants at his current school.

At present, subjects of choice are (in order of preference) : Spanish, Politics, French and economics.

He turned up to his second choice establishment today to be told (erroneously as it turns put) that he 's a bit dim and stands little to no chance of passing economics and so should do Business Studies. Turns out they got the stats wrong!!

But, anyhow, this has now put business into his head : a subject he has never so much as glanced at in a prospectus, did not study at GCSE and din not find out about at Open Evenings.

Personally, I find the prospect of either Economics or Business a bit dull. I have looked at specs and Exam Papers for the reformed A Levels and can't see the big differences. I do know they have different reputations and that a different student profile takes them. I do also know that some students do extremely well in business who are not so good at other A levels : but wonder if specific skills or mindsets help (and wonder how much this applied to pre reformed A level).

Can anyone without a Russell Group/ elitist axe to grind advise me impartially as to what the key differences are : and what type of student, with what kind of skills prospers in each?

For context , DSs (somewhat under predictions) GCSEs are : English Lang 5 (being remarked ) ; Lit 6 ; Maths 6 ; Spanish A* ; French A everything else C (best not talk about the D for Geography...). It may or may not be relevant that after much resitting and redoing he eventually got a C for CiDA (ICT for dummies??) and computers are not his thing. (not sure what is ...)

It is perfectly possible to do Business Studies at A level without the GCSE. My DD enjoyed it. Economics too for that matter. Generally Business Studies is seen as less academic than Economics and has less Maths content. I would say that if his Maths was good, then Economics should not be a problem but a 6 is a bit iffy so I can see where the school are coming from. Where my DDs went to school, Business Studies was sleected by the less mathematically able. Economics took the A-A* mathematicians. Business studies tends to be more focussed on the world of business and Economics more on the big picture. He would struggle to do Economics at a RG University on a level 6 maths at GCSE and no Maths A level.

However, is he really taking all four to A2 level? Most schools are not doing 4 any more so Spanish, French and Politics would be fine. I would say he may struggle with Politics because he does not have a high grade in any essay subject. Politics is closer to History. Has he taken History at GCSE? If not, Politics may be a stretch unless he is really engaged with it. It is more about how Politics works than arguing the issue of the day though. Look at the syllabus very carefully to see if it is interesting.

As he seems to be more of a linguist, why can he not do Business Studies and the two languages? Universities are crying out for Language students with two A level languages so that would be an easier route into a Russell Group university. Plenty will not care too much about the third A level.

What is he planning on doing after A Levels?

Your point about "some students do extremely well in business who are not so good at other A Levels" is not accurate. If you look at this data here for business against the same data for economics then this would suggest they don't. However you do tend to have candidates with a lower GCSE profile taking Business against Economics as Economics is more difficult.

This is a good reference guide in the Telegraph which has several experts answering this very question here

in terms of Business Studies has less Maths content that is true, but you need to be aware of new spec now has to have

"The assessment of quantitative skills will now include at least level two mathematical skills as a minimum of 10% of the overall AS level marks and as a minimum of 10% of the overall A Level marks.
As well as calculations and the construction of graphs, the quantitative skills requirement includes interpretation, understanding, application, analysis and decision making using quantitative information."

I read the Telegraph guide and didn't find it all that illuminating tbh.

It's hard to summarise what DS is like and he is rather unusual for a modern child.

It is not true he can't write essays : it's actually a strength of his. In one lit paper he got a high grade 7. What he is poor at is ICT and science. He is actually very, very numerate (his CATS scores have him at top 2%) . He has very poor spatial awareness so the space and shape bit of maths pulls back overall performance.

Like so may boys, he has no idea what life holds for him. He is introverted and not very driven : I certainly don't see him as the next Branson !

He does like to read about politics, though and has several books about it.

I am a teacher and knew what I meant about business students : I was trying not to cause offence but I guess I meant solid, hard workers do quite well in business if they met deadlines and jump through hoops and present ideas clearly . But I think the coursework has gone, so that may change.

He had originally picked English Language but has dropped that idea following his GCSE results so that's how we got back to square one really.

Bubbles _ I am not sure a 6 in maths would be considered 'iffy' to most mortals!

ps all schools around us are doing 4 A levels ...

The institution which has made him feel dim is college which basically takes many not very able students so it is a tad offensive on their part!

Didn't want to appear snippy, sorry. This is v stressful.

Not sure if you are confusing A level with BTEC as there has not been coursework in the AS/A2 spec for years.

Which boards are the college using? From a general pov the business covers an overview of business so HE, finance, management, marketing etc. Which gives a more educated view of the different roles/avenues that can be explored as a career. I can't give details of economics as its been years (and years!) Since I touched it.

But for both subjects one thing I personally think is vital to success is an interest to current affairs and take an active interest in the news!

At my 6th form we allow for subject changes upto 30th September (data has to be sent to DfE on 1st Oct), so wpuld it be possible that he starts 1 subject and if he doesn't enjoy it swap to the other?

piggy - 3 A Levels (to include 2 facilitators) are the norm around here, especially with the new linear specs, and the ending of the AS level, which used to mean that one A Level could be dropped after Y12. Exceptions to the rules seem to be sciences (or maths & further maths) or stellar GCSE grades. I was told (rightly or wrongly) that universities are now more interested in 3 strong A Levels, rather than 4 average A Levels. It would seem (now) a bit of a waste of time to start off with 4 and then drop one with nothing to show for it. That's my take on it FWIW.

Business A Level at my place has always had this strange in classroom exam where they disappear for a week typing stuff : it's definitely not BTec, as we don't do them. I couldn't see that in the new specs.

If he decides he doesn't like something he can drop it, yes, However, at his first choice school, he couldn't swap from Bus to econ without dropping Spanish, which is not going to happen!

His current school doesn't offer very wide range of subjects and its blocking is very inflexible, compared to my own school and the sixth form college.

x post with cricket. Maybe your DS could give both a go for a month and see which one he prefers?

Hi café :)

I know it's the norm, and encouraged, but round my way the schools have been incapable of fighting parental and studental (?) choice to persist with 4.

I am not sure how I feel about this but from my DS's point of view, as he is so undecided, it makes sense to me with precisely the view that he can drop one fairly quickly if he doesn't like it and drop to the three. if he starts on three and doesn't like one, we're all doomed!

You can still drop an A Level after AS if the school offers AS in that subject. At DS's school, they make all students do AS .

I think you're right that Business Studies is very achievable by any half decent student prepared to work their way through it.

OTOH Economics at Alevel pairs well with Politics and isn't overly quantitive.

He's picked solid subjects for the first three choices. I wouldn't get overly concerned about option #4. Ther s a kind of hysteria that sets in about having four facilitating subjects and it's completely overdone.

Thanks serf. I teach a very non facilitating A Level subject so do know a lot of it is snobbery and misunderstanding. And , let's be honest, my DS is not top end Russell Group bound with his GCSE results.

I am delighted he is carrying on with MFL and the rest doesn't bother me. I find the limitations on subject choice at his present school frustrating - literally everything 'decent'/to his taste is flung in the same column as French!

Neither Economics or Politics are facilitating but with two MFL, that is not a problem. To some extent, the other subjects matter less and he should do what he might enjoy. Business studies as a third or fourth A level doesn't hold anyone back from a standard university. Three good passes are what universities want, not four below par ones. Few university offers are based on four A levels.

I did not mean to imply 6 for maths was bad but it's not A or A* which at DDs school was expected for Economics A level. Why do a subject where there is an element of doubt if you don't need to? You have not said if he did History GCSE because this is the best indication as to whether he would be good at politics. Do voting systems float his boat? Or the workings of parliament? My DD found it very dry but they may have improved the syllabus.

Yes, he did history GCSE.
He is dead set on politics so he can find out for himself I guess if it's dry or not! I do think he has probably glamorised it a bit in his head but he is definitely doing that one so will have to find out for himself!

I am aware of the whole facilitating subject thing as a teacher myself : I don't think the universities he will apply to will be that concerned. he is doing MFL because he likes them and is good at them.

I really did just want to know the key differences between business and economics in content and in skills bubbles, not in terms of reputation as I am aware of that myself.

The maths style content of both subjects should be well within his grasp - in fact it is the numeracy element of the subjects that appeals to him and he likes stats but it does appear to me that Economics is more of a ;why' subject and business more of a 'what', so I think he would prefer the former.

Just thought I should clarify the establishment who claimed he would fail economics weren't absing this on his maths grade. They were basing this on his GCSE average points score and statistical outcomes. The woman at the desk inputted his data wrongly into the computer!

He exceeds the minimum requirements for studying the subject at the college . One bonus is that they offer A level core maths to all economics students not doing A level maths.

I know you didn't want a Russell Group/elitist perspective, but I did an economics A level and an economics degree at a Russel group uni.
I have friends who did Business Studies A level and who did the same uni course, although had to sit extra maths modules. I don't know if they would be allowed to do that now - it's worth checking entry requirements.

Business Studies seemed to be more about problem solving, with a slightly lower maths involvement but there's a pretty decent overlap across Economics and Business Studies. I don't think there's a huge difference between the two so I'd look in terms of exam/coursework structure and see what you think would be best.

Again, it may have all changed but Economics was all exam based when I did it, whereas those doing Business Studies had to do a case study on a local business which seemed a lot more hassle:

Good luck

Thanks nice - nothing angainst RG - it's just a s a subject leader for an A level subject , I know the perspectives of 'hard' and 'soft' subjects.

What you have told me re problem solving etc is helpful, though, so thanks.

The coursework has gone from business which leaves me more confused than less as the content does seem similar unless you go over it with a knowledgeable fine tooth comb! They both have multiple choice sections, for example.

My friend who teaches business couldn't even really explain , so I guess that makes me steer him towards opting for the subject which instinct tells me is better taught (at the place he will attend) and led and has maybe a slightly higher profile of ability, just to motivate him.

I always used to think he was an exam type and should avoid coursework - but his GCSEs don't really bear that out!

No problem piggy.
I've seen people turn into intellectual snobs over something as simple as exam board, so I can see how 'hard' vs 'soft' subject could also set some people off.

I did my a levels a decade ago so I'm not supposed a lot has changed.

Anyway, just wanted to add that your son is very lucky to have such a supportive mum

Aw rhanks !

Wish he thought so!

thanks not rhanks. Am not Scooby Doo.

My view is that vocational subjects should be the last subjects studied before going into employment.

If your DS is interested in politics then he may well find economics interesting as a partner subject.

Points based universities will tend not to worry so much about precise subjects studied at A level. My DD got onto her Biochemistry degree with lesser A level Maths/Science A levels (poor AS level performance let her down) but an A grade MFL A level. She is doing very well and likely to end up with a 2.1 or even a first.

that makes me steer him towards opting for the subject which instinct tells me is better taught (at the place he will attend)

I think that this is important. It is easy to get swept up into generalisations but you have to look at the particulars that apply to your DC. It may be that (made up statistic) 80% of pupils get A/A* at A Level but if your school never gets anyone above a C grade then you go with the particular, not the general, statistic.
Are you right to say he is not RG material? Isn't there a shortage of MFL students, especially from State education (I'm assuming that he wants to do MFL). A quick whizz through UCAS finds RG Universities asking for ABB-BBC and he should be on for good grades in his MFL if his GCSE results are anything to go by.
Another thought. What's the workload like for Economics or BusStud? I remember years ago a friend's DD doing two languages at A Level and there was masses (and I mean masses, times two) of vocab to learn.