If IGCSEs are deemed to be easy..

[PamBeasleyHalpert]

Because there is an element of coursework in English, why aren't science GCSEs also deemed to be easy given that they have controlled assessments which appear to be retaken until the mark is satisfactory? IGCSE sciences are purely exam based and thus "must" be harder. Or do people want it both ways?

It's not "people" .
The government deemed them less rigourous, and excluded them from performance tables.

And I can spell rigorous, honest!

Pupils cannot retake the same controlled assessment. They can attempt one of the other controlled assessments for the subject to see if they get a better mark.

IGCSEs are not universally regarded as easy. It depends on the subject. For English, many think the IGCSE is easier. For Maths, on the other hand, most think the IGCSE is harder.

The argument for removing IGCSEs from league tables isn't necessarily that they are easier. It is that they are different, allowing some schools to game the system by choosing whichever is easier for each subject.

There is no longer any coursework in the new 9-1 GCSEs. For English this has come into effect from 2017 whereas for Science this comes into effect from 2018 onwards.
As stated by prh the same Science controlled assessment cannot be retaken. However if a Science GCSE is retaken (usually Core science can be taken in Y10 and resat in Y11) the pupils must do a new controlled assessment. Controlled assessments are very time consuming for both teachers and pupils, so there isn't usually time to do several different ones.
But this system of separate Core and Additional Science is also being removed for the new 9-1 science GCSE that is equivalent to the Double award so all exams are being taken at the end of Y11.
The odd thing about this debate is that when only independent schools offered iGCSE they were considered as harder by most people, but once state schools started taking iGCSE courses suddenly the opposite was stated.

Is there an element of course work in iGCSE Edexcel English?

DDs school are reverting from IGCSE to the new GCSEs for languages as apparently they have been toughened up and will now be a good preparation for A level. The old language GCSEs were very easy. The whole point of IGCSEs and GCSEs are to prepare for A level, they are of little real worth in life themselves and pretty much forgottten about once you have left school.
I suspect a few more schools will change back to GCSEs as the controlled assessmets go and the content become similar unless the government starts tinkering with them again.

Not everyone takes A Levels and GCSEs are a key requirement for many jobs. I think it is more that when only independent schools could take IGCSE exams they stated the exams were harder and their results looked better. However, certainly in English, they were actually significantly easier and our results rocketed.
I think a few Independent schools will have to move to GCSE since an A* in IGCSE will be a lower grade to a 9 at GCSE and this will have an impact on University admissions.

Interesting stuff. I mentioned the science assessment retakes because on the Year 11 threads there was lots of discussion about redoing them due to disappointing results.
I can't see that universities in the past have cared about whether IGCSEs or GCSEs were taken - but I get the point about A vs 8 or 9. For the subject my ds wants to read at university he has an A GCSE as the 1-9 weren't introduced for that subject his year, so at least the universities can't quibble when he applies!

IGCSEs move to numbers soon as well so that's not a reason to change. I think the easy modules taken by some schools but not the top Indyd for English has been well-covered in other threads.

IGCSEs remain taken by the top Indy schools (DDs isn't near the top) where everyone goes on to take A levels or equivalent because they have been better preparation. If they were easy they would be poor preparation for A level and A levels are what matters to the top Indys because all of their pupils go on to RG Unis.

What Cake says ^

Mmmm not true for English I am afraid. The new GCSE exams will be far better prep and my DP, involved in admissions for a RG uni, says that the new Maths 9 will be a game changer, not Maths but a science subject that being a good mathematician makes a difference but often students have not studied Maths at A Level.

Whatever Redsrule. DS's school has 50% A* at A level this year so it looks like only studying IGCSEs didn't hold them back.

Not saying it did but they are not more challenging so let's stop the rhetoric. After all my non selective state secondary had 60% A/7 or above. The results in 2 years are what we have to look for.

Your last post like a lot of your sentences makes no sense whatsoever. I give up.

At least I didn't use 'like'!

Eh? Can't you understand perfectly grammatical English, Redsrule? This clearly wasn't a teenage 'like' that Cake used.

The lack of punctuation confused me! Just saying that, whilst some subjects might be more challenging at IGCSE, English is not one of them. It is not an attacks on independent education, I went to one myself, just a factual comment. I don't know about other subjects and don't presume to but I would say that in English language pupils were at least a grade higher in IGCSE and Lit possibly 1 1/2.

Where and how were pupils a grade higher? How are you assessing the English language levels of an equal number of students with the same grades at IGCSE and GCSE from all boards of both? I'm not sure, unless you are some kind of exam ombudsman, anyone would be in a position to do that.

I have no idea about the relative difficulty of them to be honest.

There's no coursework in the iGCSE English exams DS is taking (I answered my own question from yesterday). Would be interested to know why they might be less challenging than GCSE (or not as challenging as some other iGCSE subjects).

Ancient - there are easier routes through the CIE IGCSE which include course work and a speaking exam. I have never known any Indy school take them and have no idea how easy they are and I don't care enough to look into it.
Common sense should tell anyone that super selective schools taking the equivalent of the top few per cent by ability and educating those children for seven years in preparation for the most competitive uni places, will do everything possible to challenge and stretch those pupils. The inference that those schools go out of their way to find the easiest exams for them to sit at 16 is ridiculous. GCSEs are only a stepping stone and are of no consequence for these pupils. These pupils go on to achieve similarly fantastic results at A level. For anyone familiar with schools like Westminster & SPGS the idea of them seeking out the easiest exam option is just laughable. It is no more likely than a comp searching out easier exams for the top few pupils who are expected to obtain mostly or all A*s at GCSE.

Thank you for the elucidation cakeisalwaystheanswer, which is just as I thought. Hope all is well chez vous.

My son has just taken CIE IGCSE English and they didn't do either the speaking or the coursework - they just did two final exams. It's very difficult to actually work out what is more challenging as there are so many boards and options on offer. But I agree with you, cake, about the daft suggestion that extremely academically selective schools are looking for easy exams.