Choosing secondary school - do you take friends and journey into account?

[Clembarrass]

We have a few months, but starting to discuss secondary school with DC1 now.

We will have a choice of 2 secondaries. We moved to the area a year ago, and the primary school we were allocated wasn't our nearest school. It is a feeder school for school C.
Most children from the primary therefore automatically go to school C. It has a big intake from a wide area - some of the children from our school live close enough to walk (probably about a third of them), others need to take the bus or train - DC1 would have to take the train or bus.

However we actually live closer to school H. Lots of children from DC's school aren't in catchment (some are) - we are within walking distance (about a 25 minute walk.)

There are likely to be a few other children from DC's class going there, but probably not many.

School H doesn't have a feeder school system, - it has admission areas instead, but in practice the vast majority of the children will have gone to one of the other local primaries together, and will know each other.

I strongly feel one should go to the nearest school, but I am aware that this will mean DC1 having to start over socially again after a big move not that long ago, and again being thrown into an environment where lots of other people know each other.
Is it silly to take this into account? DC coped fine with the transition before, btw, and has made friends, but I just feel it is a shame to potentially lose the friendships which have already been made - which are obviously fairly new.

yes and yes... If you can afford the bus/train, then I would allow DC to choose.

Yes. I've accepted that one secondary has been crossed off because DS probably won't know a soul. Another two have been crossed off because of the very early start and long bus journey.

Friendships change when DC move school - the schools are (usually) much larger, pupils get put in different classes and your DC may end up with not many friends in his form.

But if he went to his local school in walking distance, he could strike up friendships as he's walking. Also easier to socialise as he'll be close to his new friends homes.

• Journey: Yes! Important; twice a day for seven years. (But automatically going for the nearest one makes no sense; other things also matter)
• Existing friends: No, harden your heart and use your brain. Nice kids and good behaviour, yes

Don't forget:

• Fit - an environment that suits the DC; academic level, interests/activities, subject strengths, setting or streaming, any SEN
• Feel - happy, friendly, DC feels comfortable, no culture shock; discipline, warmth, academic focus, work ethic etc
• Progress 8 - value added, good teaching, achieve academic potential
• Head teacher

journey - yes as it impacts quality of life
friends - not really, other things like academics, pastoral way more important. they make new friends anyway. If old friends go elsewhere then if they make an effort they can keep up with them too.

I have never heard of Progress 8 - how do I find this out?

I like the categories of Fit and Feel, we will definitely be thinking about those when we go to the open days.

We will probably let DC choose, but we want to be able to give good advice and discuss the pros and cons properly first.

So most people think that journey is a more important factor than friends - that was my thought, but I really don't want us to get this wrong!

Journey is a big part of their social life; they usually like the journey very much because it's social time (ideally less than 40 minutes each way, though).

Clem I know many parents let their DC choose their secondary, but to my mind a 10yo doesn't generally have the maturity to make a considered choice at that age.
I would only let a child choose if I were happy that all options were equally good in terms of academics and pastoral, or if the better school was a much longer journey which might be too much to 'impose'.
Personally I would recommend you switch it around, make it your decision but taking his views into account.

Friends? Absolutely not. None of my children have ever kept the same friends once starting high school. They make new friends in their new classes. They barely give their primary school friends another thought once theyre at the end of the first week.

Journey? Yes absolutely consider this. If you can't get your child to school by bus or yourself easily it can cause issues with being late etc

Always pick the best school for your child and never pick a school based on thats where their friends are going. Those friends will change and those friends picked that school without considering your child. You need to be selfish on this one. It's about YOUR child not anyone elses.

My DC all separated from a lot of friends when they went to secondary. Those who were really close they stayed in contact with, which has got easier with technology.

At secondary there are always children who come from "unusual" schools. One of my DDs best friend had just moved 100 miles, another early friend had moved 1000 miles.

The key thing is to see what the schools are like - how do they fit your thoughts about education? How will they suit your children? Do they cater for their key interests - for example if they are musical is it a school phasing out music? What things does each school see as their key selling point - are these important to you?
I limited travel to 1 hour roughly, but under that is fine.

The only time I would say friends is a consideration is when the school takes 99% of its intake from one area - so anyone not from the area is likely to be the odd one out. That's hard when you're the outsider.

Journey definitely a consideration - and all other things being equal would send him there.

Clem:

Glad you found some of the above comments helpful. Re Progress 8:

In England you can compare Progress 8 results, and many other school statistics, here:
www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk

Add the relevant schools to the "comparison list", and immerse yourself in the 2016 data.

You need to read up bit on Progress 8 to understand how it is calculated and interpreted, but in my view it is more helpful than the old % with 5 GCSE including maths & English. Google it and read e.g. www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-views/gcse-results-day-how-does-progress-8-work

And look out for a new batch of provisional 2017 data later.

Look at the schools and decide which one best suits your child. The journey is important but in terms of reliability and frequency rather than length. Also what is the late afterschool provision like for the train or walk. My DD was in the school production which frequently was 6pm finish in January and February.

Thank you for the progress 8 info, NWGirls. One school is average, the other above average for their score.

Good points about getting home following any after-school activity, hadn't thought about that, and it would probably mean me driving to pick up or paying for the train (costs more) instead of the bus.

Interesting that the bus journey can be social time, hadn't thought of that either, but it makes sense.

We have never been in a position of being able to choose a school before, as we moved from an area where everyone goes to the catchment school, and it is a bit overwhelming thinking what/how to prioritise, so these posts have been very helpful.

Both schools have different aspects about them that sound great from reading their websites, but there isn't a big front-runner by any means. I would say they have an equal number of good points about them.

It's reassuring to hear that friendships seem to be fluid at this stage, and can change anyway, as I think one main thing I want from the school is for DC to have a good experience socially.

Thank you everyone for your help.

Clem We have 2 schools within walking distance, so travel didn't come into things for us. Also all pretty much all kids in our small town go to one of the 2 schools so friends not an issue. This is what we took into account:

• Academics for our sort of child (high/middle/low achiever)
• Pastoral care (ours have particular need of good pastoral care, but this also covers how effective they are at bullying etc which can happen anywhere)
• Ethos of school (results oriented, whole child oriented, all the praise to sports etc - you can tell a lot by what a head does or doesn't say during their speech at the open evening)

You may also want to look at

• extra curricular
• how much homework is set
• how uniform is worn (over the top neatness, generally OK, scruffy)
• who gets to do triple science
• do they offer ability to do 2 MFLs for GCSE
• what non-GCSE options are there for less academic kids in y10/y11
• entry requirements for 6th form (some schools get very good A level results by being super selective over who can continue to 6th form)

I know all of the above can change from year to year, but I think they give a good indicator of ethos.

There is a surprising amount of difference between the 2 schools, except for academic results which are almost identical.

Also consider the cost of the bus/train fare, some of my friend's have sent their children to a selective grammar and the cost of the buses has shocked me.

My biggest consideration was discipline. Ds1 is a head down get on with your work. I didn't want continual low level disruption to affect that. I wanted a school that dealt with it swiftly and didn't brush things under the rug.

Take discipline and the journey into account.
They will make new friends regardless of who they go with. I don't agree with the friendship pushing and maintaining thing at that nor any age.

Journey - yes. Although having to get 'a' bus or train wouldn't put me off necessarily. It can be the same time as a longer walk. Travelling together (be that walking or commuting) is quite an important part of the day - for socialising, for independence and for 'putting the world to rights'.
If it were a long or difficult journey however, then it really starts to impact on all sorts of things - the fact that every day is a couple of hours longer. The fact they won't live near friends (see point above about socialising on commute) for travel or for shared lifts or for socialising out of school. Whether they can stay late for clubs or practices or fixtures or go in on a weekend (before a drama production or something), when you need to drop off / pick up at crack of dawn for residentials, etc.

Friends, I wouldn't take account of. Partly because you don't know what school others will end up in, but mainly because many, many friendships change in secondary school anyway.

Thank you so much for giving us lots of things to think about.

We are making a chart of positive and negative things about each school - turns out some things we disagree about whether they are positive or negative!

It's not a complicated journey, and probably would only take about 15-20 minutes longer to get the train to school C than to walk to school H. I suppose that is an extra 3 hours a week though.

Are they likely to talk about discipline at the open days, or am I going to have to put my hand up and ask about it (visions of a red-faced child next to me trying to sink into the earth if I do )

Every high school open evening has harped on about how disciplined the students are and how well behaved they all are and they all say theres very little bullying and if there is its stamped out immediately.

The reality is that EVERY school has discipline issues and EVERY school has bullying. Its just some acknowledge this and fix it some dont. Open evenings are to showcase the positives so they will talk the talk.

Have a look at parent view online. Parents can leave their experiences of the school. This will usually include parents who are less than satisfied with the school. This will give you an idea of school discipline. If you really want to gather your data go and speak to the shop workers in the immediate vicinity of the school. DDs schools pupils often spill out into the local supermarket and get into fights and trouble while there. I have spoken to several staff and they all say that they would never send their dc to that school because they behave appallingly.