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Original poster

Can someone please explain AS Maths/ Further Maths awards/ grading?

28 replies

OnlyTeaForMe · 19/08/2017 12:15

DS did 7 OCR Maths/ further maths papers. (6 AS and 1 A2 (C3) )

His results show a grade A in Maths with 282/300 for the combination of his best papers - C1, C2, M1

But there is no mention of any result in Further Maths - why?
His FP1 result was his worst ( less than 80%) - would this have anything to do with it?

Also he was originally predicted an A* for Further Maths at A2 - has he blown his chances of that now, with an FP1 of less than 80%?

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 19/08/2017 12:44

I don't know why he didn't receive a result for further maths AS, that seems a bit odd and should be followed up with the school.

To get an A he needs to achieve an average of 80 or higher overall, and an average of 90% or higher specifically on A2 modules. FP1 is an AS module so he can still get an A at further maths so long as his A2 modules average over 90% - that's the hard part of getting an A. They arrange the applied modules to maximise the maths A-level result so prioritise getting an A in maths over further maths.

Malbecfan · 19/08/2017 13:03

Don't you have to do a Mechanics paper for FM? DD is away atm so I can't ask her but I'm pretty sure she had to do FP1 for AS plus some mechanics.

This year, she sat Maths & FM for A2 and did the following units:
Core 3, Core 4, Decisions 1, Mechanics 3, FP2 and FP3. Other than FP2 and FP3, I can't remember which other unit is FM. D1, C3 and C4 were definitely Maths. Sorry

noblegiraffe · 19/08/2017 13:11

For further maths AS you just need FP1 plus 2 other modules that aren't C1-4. So you could have FP1, S1 and S2 for example, or FP1, D1 and S1, or even FP1, M2 and D1 if M1 was used for maths.

Original poster
OnlyTeaForMe · 19/08/2017 17:24

DS says he thinks they just award the highest combination at this stage and 'keep' the rest of the results for combining with A2 results? Confused

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 19/08/2017 17:28

I haven't seen any kids' results slips but I've got my schools' OCR AS results from the exam board in front of me, and our Y12 kids who also took 7 modules have got a result for both maths and further maths AS. Confused

jeanne16 · 19/08/2017 19:09

It is really all quite complicated and can be hard to follow. You only really know which modules count for single Maths and which count for FM at the end of Y13. To do 2 full A levels, they will complete 12 modules.

Basically C1, C2, C3 and C4 must count for single Maths. FP1,FP2 and FP3 must count for FM. Their other 5 modules will be divided between the 2 A levels by the exam board to firstly ensure you get the highest possible grade for single maths, but without over achieving. The rest go to FM.

Then other rules apply, to get A in single maths they must average over 90% in C3 and C4. To get A in FM, they must average over 90% in 3 of the A2 modules, so average over 90% in 3 of FP2, FP3, S2, S3, M2, M3, D2 (obviously they won't have done all of these).

Your DC should resist FP1 next year. He will find it much easier once he has done FP2 and FP3.

Btw none of this applies after this next y13 as maths goes linear in y12 from September.

cakeisalwaystheanswer · 19/08/2017 19:46

Onlytea, your DS did extremely well. DS's school AS results aren't good for the lower 6th except those doing FM as well, and an awful lot from the U6th resat C1/2 this year.

Original poster
OnlyTeaForMe · 19/08/2017 20:49

Thank you! This is beginning to now make sense (I think!)

So my next question is what do they put on their UCAS forms then? I had expected DS to put his two AS results, but presumably he'll just put his 'A' grade, and perhaps the UMS score?

OP posts:
jeanne16 · 20/08/2017 06:49

UCAS forms only request grades, not UMS marks, unless your DS is applying to Cambridge in which case they fill in a supplementary form asking for actual marks but only for the old modular exams.

The universities know it is complicated with maths and FM. Ask the school for advice but I would imagine they will say A for single maths and possibly B for FM.

JustRichmal · 20/08/2017 07:59

If he does the fp1 next year will it count as a resit?

jeanne16 · 20/08/2017 09:03

Yes it would count as a resit but since he scored below 80% I don't think he has much choice if he wants to try for the top grade.

noblegiraffe · 20/08/2017 10:21

He really should have an AS grade to put on his UCAS form - ask the school why he hasn't!

He doesn't have to resit FP1 if he was a bit below 80, it's an AS module so he can get what he likes in it, so long as he averages 80 over all 6 modules. If he's aiming for an A, he'll be aiming for over 90 in his A2 modules so this would pull the average up to over 80 if he did well on his other modules, even with a really duff score. One of my kids this year got an A and got 60 on one AS module!

He should resit it if he's worried about missing an A once he starts his other modules, but he's got plenty of time to decide.

jeanne16 · 20/08/2017 12:36

It's true he doesn't have to resit FP1, but he should find it very straight forward after doing FP2 and FP3 and it will provide a good safety net in case he bombs some other A2 paper.

Original poster
OnlyTeaForMe · 21/08/2017 10:18

OK, I got one of the totals wrong (but I don't think it changes the general discussion)

So his actual scores were:
C1: 93/100 UMS
C2: 96/100
C3: 73/100
FP1: 68 /100 Sad
M1: 91/100
S1: 82/100
D1: 77/100

and his award is shown as:
3890 Mathematics A 280/300
So they have obviously added his C1, C2 & M1 (his highest other grade) to reach that?

Then with his crap FP1 score, if you add FP1, S1, D1 you get 68 + 82 + 77 = 227 which is only an average of 75.67, so a B?

HOWEVER - couldn't the results be arranged differently:
Maths: C1 + C2 + D1 = 266 UMS
and
Further Maths: FP1 + M1 + S1 = 241 UMS

And in this scenario he gets an A in both Maths & Further Maths (just!)?
Or am I completely misunderstanding this?

OP posts:
PetraDelphiki · 21/08/2017 10:21

Seems like a ridiculous way of doing things I have to say (sorry, not helpful I know)

noblegiraffe · 21/08/2017 10:30

Have you asked the school why he doesn't have a Further Maths result? Did they actually enter him for it? You're right they normally jiggle the modules around to maximise grades so he should have an A in both, but if they've not entered him for FM then he won't have any grade.

Looking at those results he will need to resit C3 because he currently can't get an A* in maths - he need to be getting over 90% averaged across C3 and C4. Resitting FP1 with that low a score would also be an easy win.

Original poster
OnlyTeaForMe · 21/08/2017 10:45

Thanks Noble - really appreciate this chance to discuss this to work it through in my head! (Are you a Maths teacher?)

I've had an email back from his maths teacher who had said yes, "AS Further Maths could also be aggregated: I believe this can be done retrospectively, if needed " so I don't think he was actually entered for it in this round!
I think since AS levels are used less in UCAS and being phased out, the school must have decided not to enter them this year, but wait for all the results at the end of Yr13.

I've also read something about results being 'locked in' once an AS award is made (or 'certificated'?) and that you need to 'release' them again if you want to re-arrange/use them in different combinations at A2 - can anyone explain that?

OP posts:
Original poster
OnlyTeaForMe · 21/08/2017 10:46

Yes - he already plans to resit C3. What are the issues with a resit? Is it identifed as such?

OP posts:
OhYouBadBadKitten · 21/08/2017 13:32

I think I'm being a bit thick, but which are the a2 modules that you need 90ums average on to get a* in FM? Is it just FP2?

If you take fp3 and fp4 do you need to get 90ums average across all of them?

OhYouBadBadKitten · 21/08/2017 13:37

Actually, think I've got it. FM A2 modules are not any of the core modules nor the first module in the rest.

But it's just 90ums average over the 3 modules taken that haven't been applied to the AS exams.

noblegiraffe · 21/08/2017 13:43

I think for FM it's 90 average over the best 3 A2 units so any module higher than FP1, D1, M1, S1 could count as A2 for FM and they arrange the applied modules to maximise firstly your chances of an A in maths, then A in FM.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 21/08/2017 13:50

that makes sense :) so basically they need to get 90ums average over 6 a2 modules.

Goodness, it's quite complicated!

noblegiraffe · 21/08/2017 13:56

5, because they only need C3 and C4 for Maths. Or am I missing something?

OhYouBadBadKitten · 21/08/2017 14:09

doh. yep. You aren't missing anything. It's me.

jcq guidelines.

noblegiraffe · 21/08/2017 14:59
Grin

Onlytea some elite university courses are a bit sniffy about students who have resat modules to improve their grades and ask for module results on applications. Most universities only care about the actual final result.

I'm still confused about why the school haven't entered him for FM AS, as that means he won't have a result to put on his UCAS form. A lot of schools aren't bothering with AS for reformed A-levels because it doesn't count towards A-level, but maths AS does count.